The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Feminine Mystique » » Seattle Times Op-Ed on Magic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Maritess
View Profile
Regular user
165 Posts

Profile of Maritess
Hello! Check out my Seattle Times Op-Ed on magic and popular culture: http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/202......xml.html
Discordia
View Profile
New user
7 Posts

Profile of Discordia
Hi Mari! I absolutely agree with what you are saying in the article...I used to go to a magic club in Vegas that was pretty much all men. They were nice don't get me wrong, however they would often tell inappropriate jokes(I was around 13-18 at the time) and would objectify women and it made me feel really uncomfortable honestly. And it isn't just magicians either....male dominated groups such as gamers and even skeptics have similar problems!


Debbie
Maritess
View Profile
Regular user
165 Posts

Profile of Maritess
THANK YOU DEBBIE--a true Las Vegas local magician and insider who knows the magic history, the magic books and the major players in the magic scene that includes authors, inventors, performers and more. For those who say there are no porn tapes traded at magic clubs or there are no major magic books illustrated with chicks in bikinis or porn stars--they do not have access to a vast library and are lacking in their magic history information. For those who think there is no porn exchanged at magic club meetings, they do not hang out in the inner circles of magic.
slyhand
View Profile
Inner circle
Good ole Virginia
1884 Posts

Profile of slyhand
I and my wife read your article several times. We both have failed to understand the point you are trying to convey.

Would you please explain it to us in a couple of sentences.

Thanks
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.

Alec
Maritess
View Profile
Regular user
165 Posts

Profile of Maritess
You need to read it again. Get someone to help you.
slyhand
View Profile
Inner circle
Good ole Virginia
1884 Posts

Profile of slyhand
Wow. I ask for some clairification and you basically tell me I am too stupid to understand. Obviously you are unable or unwilling to to tell me your basic point in a few sentences.

Sad. What you are doing is very troll like.
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.

Alec
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
21691 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
WOW! Now it is clear why you can't make it in magic or mentalism, bad personality and attitude does not come off well from anyone including a woman.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Godzilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Tied & Untied Witches on
5318 Posts

Profile of Godzilla
She,does seem to be an expert on PORN ! Smile
Also,there is a nice picture of her in the tub with cards,in the above link!
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10349 Posts

Profile of saysold1
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10349 Posts

Profile of saysold1
Mariess is simply a hypocrite - without a shred of doubt.

I have no issues with the super Cheesy photo of her nude in the bathtub covered in Tallo Ho cards - publicity shots (both male and female) are par for the course in the entertainment biz.

But her commentary makes her sound like some kind of angel that has had to endure porn and a lack of respect my male perforners.

Odd - strange - weird. Just is.

Maritess is probably reading these threads (most of which she started) and probably feeling that these kinds of statements only prove somehow how this horrible male dominated industry doesn't respect her.

If that is all she takes away, then she is missing the boat entirely...

Magic and the industry I feel wants to be an inclusive industry - talented people of all stripes, colors, male or female should work hard and succeed and go as far as they want to.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10349 Posts

Profile of saysold1
Angela Funovits (as one example) appears extremely talented - professional, confident, and not whining either as far as I can tell:

http://www.angelafunovits.com/television.html
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
SWNerndase
View Profile
Regular user
168 Posts

Profile of SWNerndase
I posted a reply to this editorial in another forum here where it was duplicated. Seems to be more action and discussion here, so I'm going to repost my comments. Hope that's ok:


Originally Posted: Aug 19, 2013 8:01pm

Don't know anything about the widespread trading of porn by magicians, never seen that at a ring meeting or convention.

But Lee Asher did have porn actresses in the pictures (and on the cover) of an old set of lecture notes. Richard Kaufman published a book called "Sexy Magic" with scantily clad illustrated women in provocative poses, and there is a history of misogynistic plots in the art. So Ms. Zurbano is not delusional on those points. However I do think it's prevalence is exaggerated for her own purposes. There have been a few topless magic shows in Vegas, never to my knowledge many at the same time, so a flippant remark like "...the number of topless magic shows in Vegas has fallen to zero." says a lot about the authors agenda.

It starts to get interesting when she makes the, in my opinion accurate, observation that women are often displayed as having the same occupation or assignments as men, but not at the same level. Instead of exploring this rich idea further, we divert into a historically innacurate paragraph about the Discoverie of Withcraft. Amusing though that Ms. Zurbano chided others in this thread for not having basic history, apparently not realizing she got the publication date of Scott wrong in her editorial. And while some of the witches burned and tortured at the time were women, many were men and most from either sex were not actually conjurors.

This article/essay hints at being about something insightful, then collapses from lack of real content. I agree completely with some of her assumptions and observations, but they are neither argued well nor supported by facts. In the end the piece is vaguely accusatory, makes all male magicians into creeps, and comes off as written by a victim of the male dominated culture of magic--who sees all knows all and tells all from a superior point of view.

Too bad. It could have been a powerful piece from a underrepresented, and I believe, welcome point of view. I hope she is not deterred by the somewhat negative responses here, but writes more, argues better, and stakes out a place in this decidedly male dominated culture.

SWN

PS--As much as I don't want to admit it, I have to agree with some of the more vitriolic commenters that Ms. Zurbano's own promo pic from her linked site--being nude in a bathtub strategically covered with cards--undermines her position on this. I suppose it could be argued that a woman choosing that shot of and for herself is far different than being objectified by another. Still…it's hard to argue in favor of having it both ways.
Misty Lee
View Profile
New user
73 Posts

Profile of Misty Lee
Posted this in the other thread on this topic, but am posting it here, too.

With all due respect Maritess, I think you are dead wrong, and your article made me angry.

Full response is here:

http://mistylee.com/women-in-magic/

It's lengthy, but I'll copy and paste it here if necessary.

Interested in reading your thoughts.
Misty
http://www.mistylee.com

Whoever said the hand is quicker than the eye never tried rolling the two down a ramp.
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10349 Posts

Profile of saysold1
This was a comment Maritess left on the Seattle Times site in response to the Op Ed:

"When I use sex, I am in control. That is my marketing, my PR. I am in power because I have the final say, I am the CEO of my identity and image. Even if I had a male dancer in a thong, first of all, that would telegraph soo gay, and I'm not the status quo, so no one would even care. When sex is used inadvertently or purposely by the status quo to make others in the workplace (or students reading important tomes in magic that are illustrated with photos mocking only women) feel uncomfortable and excluded, then that is a problem in a male-dominated field--if it truly hopes to welcome others into the fold."

Since we aren't hearing from the original poster (Maritess) we are left scavenging for some crumbs of her thinking.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
reese
View Profile
Inner circle
of Hell
1025 Posts

Profile of reese
It might be time to let her digest all of this... ya know, give her time and let her be. It's a lot to have on one's plate.
paulapaul
View Profile
Regular user
Nevada
173 Posts

Profile of paulapaul
Good points, SWNerndase. You hit the nail on the head. I’ll add my 75 cents worth.

I have heard that this section of the Café gets little activity, and what it DOES get is lame. I am guessing that now I can see why. Yikes! Chill, everybody.

My experience with men in magic has been satisfying, for the most part. But I don’t doubt for a moment that Maritess makes valid points. Why? Human nature.

I have a bit of experience here. For 26 years, I worked 50 weeks a year with my act and my full show. Let me take up the points that were more interesting to me in the original post. I understand what Maritess says, because I’ve walked a mile in her stilettos. I can express similar ideas in a few stories … none of which include porn.

For a few years, there were occasionally casting calls for a “Female Magician”. At first, I thought, “Well, finally!” But then I found that I never qualified for the spot. The shows looking for a “Female Magician” were never as fertile a source of jobs for me as those simply looking for a magician. Many such shows already had a dove worker booked, a comedy magician and an illusionist. For the “Female Magician” spot, these producers needed a novelty act that included baton twirling and doing the splits. I am not complaining. I’m pleased with being a good act, and gender has not been an issue. But, the product called “Female Magician” generally did not include a magic act like mine. This was not the case in EVERY instance. Several shows did have good female magicians. I am just relating a trend that existed for a few years.

Years ago over coffee, a West Coast publisher brought up the idea of the perfect act for a woman: She enters as the Magician’s Assistant. The audience soon realizes that the magician has not shown up, and the “assistant” pulls off the act, doing the absent magician’s effects. In truth, a great way to use an “acceptable”, or maybe more accurately, a familiar character for selling an act. As we all know, magic is quite elegant when the audience does not have to work out “who” we are. In this regard, the publisher’s idea was sound, even artistic or at the very least commercially viable. But, although my eyes may have merely widened when he suggested this useful ploy, every part of me yelled “No!” I started looking for the female images, icons or characters that were commonly thought of as magical. I read “The Goddesses in Everywoman” and other mythical books. I bought anything that had fairies, angels or sorceresses. They all had magical power. From Tinkerbell to Morgan Le Fay to Glenda the Good and her wicked sister from the West, the mountain sprite and the goddess who scourged the earth, the Crone and the guardian angel … each has mastery of her powers. Oops, maybe that’s the miz-try of her powers (wink). It is this sense of power – no matter what shade it may be – that is a topic of interest.

The way we express power is as individual as snowflakes. But let me put forth a scenario that may have at the heart of it what Maritess is saying. I saw a woman do an act in which she put a man (we’ll call him assistant 2) in a box to hide him from Assistant #1. Using a male assistant may SEEM to answer the gender issue. But the rest of the routine was off the mark. It was a cute idea wherein the guy is hidden in the box when her “main guy” (assistant 1) almost catches the magician and asst #2 together. What followed broke my heart. First, the magician has trouble putting the swords through because her dress was too short and heels too high. Plus, she put the swords through the box when Asst #1 pantomimed his disbelief that the box was empty. See – HE called the shots.

Now we are 2 for 2.

Solutions: There is no reason to get rid of the short skirt or the 3” heels (They look great) … just don’t try to crouch. In my preferred version of this act, Asst #1 demands an answer, the magician snaps her perfectly manicured fingers, puts asst #1 into a trance. Another snap of the fingers is her command for him to put the swords through the box … while she, presumably, files her nails. See – ditzy can be powerful. So can funny, !@#$%y, regal, smart, plain, etc. At issue is not the flavor we choose for ourselves, but is in the sense of who the PRINCIPAL character is. That is, who the magician is.

Now, here is the rub. With this idea that the woman can claim her power in a number of ways, even the “magician’s assistant” idea can work. However, it runs contrary to dispelling the idea that female magicians are former magicians assistants.

Enter Juliama Chen. There is nothing in her act or her persona that suggests anything other than an artist who pursued her craft, and achieved a great marriage of power and beauty. Her act has an integrity that makes gender unimportant. It also celebrates her gender. Not every act can have that, but it is a great goal to aspire to.

Back to Maritess. I produced and directed a full evening magic & illusion show around Maritess for a contract in Japan years ago. The venue was known for never renewing a show, but that magic show was the 1 show I sent to that venue which was held over. Her comments, and even her attitude seem to me to be her politics. Her stage presence is a separate matter. She is bright and engaging on stage. She has the b*lls to do hypnosis. In fact, if I had her nerve and one tooth, I’d rule the world.

I hope she will post again. This is a provocative subject.
paulapaul
View Profile
Regular user
Nevada
173 Posts

Profile of paulapaul
Misty - Yes. Yes. Yes to being a strong MAGICIAN, not the best Female Magician. I could say it over and over, but you've got the picture. Totally my belief, too.
Godzilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Tied & Untied Witches on
5318 Posts

Profile of Godzilla
Misty,does tell it like it is! Smile
And,she does know how to work the room,as she did here on Café! lol
We all can learn from,Misty!

I wish all you Lady Performers,the best!

I always wondered why so few Women posted here ?
Now I truly know,you gals are working magicians! Smile

~G
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
Misty Lee
View Profile
New user
73 Posts

Profile of Misty Lee
*pats Godzilla on the head* Thank you, luvvie. Smile

Paula Paul: THAT's what I'm talkin' about. Get it, girl! *highfive*
http://www.mistylee.com

Whoever said the hand is quicker than the eye never tried rolling the two down a ramp.
Godzilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Tied & Untied Witches on
5318 Posts

Profile of Godzilla
I'm hoping Autumn Morning Star,chimes in here to!
No telling where she is performing!

@Misty,you have a new Fanboy! Smile
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Feminine Mystique » » Seattle Times Op-Ed on Magic (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL