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elliottmagic Regular user 155 Posts |
Hello,
I have been working on my billiard ball act for a while and I was wondering what comments I could get from people on the Café. Could you please watch my video and critique me? Thanks Elliott http://youtu.be/ns1TUiE3myE |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
What is with all the hand and arm waving, and nothing happening?
Why short pants, they make you look short. Do you believe that your legs are your best feature or what, I don't understand. It is distracting to the magic, which is suppose to be the most important visual thing in a magic performance. Where you sticking your chest out for a reason, it looks like you are trying to be a Gladiator or something. I just need more information on what character and meaning behind the costume, so I can understand the act. I am just so confused by your costume and movements that the magic with balls got lost. Why were you sticking your arms up high in the air, they should be pulled close to you and your chest and face as possible. The iPhone was at a very bad angle, and that distorted much of normal view, can you do it again with straight on shots. Maybe get someone to hold the iPhone. It was just to far away to get to see the actual routine of what you were doing with the balls. |
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MichaelOzMagic Loyal user Des Moines, Iowa 234 Posts |
First good job! It takes a lot of work to structure a routine. Now time for me to be a bit picky. I couldn't see what was going on very well. Your camera was so far away. Plus I think your we're only using 1 3/4. Correct me if I'm wrong. 2in and up are best to use because they are very easy to see and spot on stage. Also your pinkish/red color does have moments where it can be very hard to see. Try sticking too white. A good color for a color change might be orange. Next slow down a tad bit and the excessive waving arms gets very distracting. Also try not to turn your body from side to side. Make necessary movements. To me it seemed a bit obvious when you were loading a ball behind the sh**l. Working on smoothing everything out. Also showing both hands empty looked very good. The only thing that looked awkward was retrieving the ball after both hands were shown empty. Lastly keep practicing on the color changes. They all need a bit more work. I say good job though! Keep working, something can always be improved!
Michael |
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elliottmagic Regular user 155 Posts |
Hi Michael,
Im using 2 inch fakinis, one set is prestige Red and the other is blue. I do agree the iPod camera wasn't the best, I could try a different camera. Bill,, As for the shorts, I was rehearsing the movements and the steals of the routine and I didn't want to fully suit up. Also where do you see that my billiards are too high in the air? Theos routine is part of my finale to the show, so it is kind of epic and I wear a cool costume lol. |
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Bill Wilson Special user 536 Posts |
Why SOOOOO Dramatic?
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Thank you for your insightful response I will learn much from your performance. I will learn much from your knowledge.
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leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
Yo Elliott,
Good to see you've been working on the routine! You followed my suggestion on the movements with the color-changes!! Excellent!!! Big improvement! Your steals are really improving too. Have you given any thought to my suggestion for the placement of the final double shelled ball? The suggestion for having it on your back and stealing it during the bow? Keep practicing! -Leo |
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leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
And just to comment on a piece of Bill's criticism, bringing your hands and arms away from your body makes the effect bigger and more natural. So I would keep doing that. Just my opinion. You know I'm not as good as the other guys.
-Leo |
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Bill Wilson Special user 536 Posts |
There are many positive things one could say about the work you've put into your routine. BUT, I disagree with Leo's post that bringing your hands and arms away from your body makes it more natural. Your overly exaggerated movements really do look ridiculous. Also that weird grin you occasional give has got to go. If you try and act more like yourself I'm sure you'll have a much better result. If you do this I would like to see a re-shoot, along with the cloths you plan on working in and a better shot video.
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leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 17:43, wandboy wrote: I'm sorry, I meant to say more theatrical, not natural. But I do think it's more natural to extend your arms then to keep them tight to your chest. When you keep your arms/hand tight, it's almost as if you're doing the trick for yourself, rather than for the audience. Overly exaggerating movements are a different matter altogether, and are opinion based. What one person might think is overly exaggerated might look fine to another person. Hard to say. Cheers, -Leo |
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elliottmagic Regular user 155 Posts |
I personally like putting my arms out. And I know Leo personally and he is very accomplished, I also have other mentors who recommend that. I also have to look at the video to see what you mean by the smile.
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leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 19:19, elliottmagic wrote: Thanks Elliott. -Leo |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Hi Elliott,
I see two MAJOR issues here... 1) There is a terrible conflict between character and action. If I was "seeing" a goth, or rock star persona, the action would be much more congruent. I understand that you are not fully suited... But there is some inconsistency to that from the neck up. A more extreme look could work. As is, I am seeing "the boy next door" in someone else's costume. Finish the package... Be 100%. 2) The action is sloppy. I am not saying that broad, over the top movement is wrong. It can still work (as noted above). But, there is so much going on when you are moving. You need to tighten this up. Precision is everything with this type of dramatic action. It needs to be done with intent. Move when it means something. Hit the mark and freeze everything that is non-essential to focusing on the effect. Freeze-frame to give the audience a snapshot when it means something. Less problematic issues, but still to be examined... Reconsider how and when you smile. At least make those transitions better. There are ways to strike an applause pose without smiling, and ways to smile in a more genuine manner. As is, it is almost as if you are dark and brooding before hitting the light switch to an applause sign after you do something, to the point of risking predictable redundancy. Consider a dramatic pause after a set up, right before the effect happens. Build a moment of tension... then, BAM! Then freeze. The audience will know. Then, look at them and let the smile happen with timing appropriate to thanking them for their response, not to signal them to applaud. You want them to follow the effect intently, not wait dutifully for their turn to respond when the sign goes on. Consider eliminating some of the action. It's like too much paint on the canvas. Each action may be great by itself, but all combined becomes a bit muddy. And please stop bouncing the balls. It adds nothing and actually works against you. These are magical objects which you are handling. Treat them as such, not as toys. Please understand that I am not being critical because I hate your act. I don't. I do like it. I just think that a better act is hiding somewhere inside. ~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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elliottmagic Regular user 155 Posts |
Hello Michael,
Thank you very much, that was insightful. I wouldn't have posted this if I wasn't ready to hear some hard criticism, this is what I'm here for. I do need to work on my facial expressions, I have the one smile that I use for almost everything, I need a dramatic face. I will work this out. Right now this is the finale costume for my show, and it is supposed to be kind of dark and epic for this routine. |
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
I understand Michael's point of view when he wrote in regard to Elliott's routine: "And please stop bouncing the balls. It adds nothing and actually works against you. These are magical objects which you are handling. Treat them as such, not as toys."
However, I think bouncing the ball is not a totally negative aspect of the routine. Most lay people think the balls are hollow and nest inside each other. Bouncing them is a way of proving that they are solid. If the balls were represented as golf balls or billiard balls, then yes, bouncing them would be a no-no, because neither golf balls nor billiard balls bounce that way. But since the balls in the routine have neither dimples nor stripes or numbers, they are obviously neither golf balls nor billiard balls. As far as the audience is concerned, they are balls that one might buy in Toys 'r' Us or Sports Authority, and a lot of balls in those two stores do bounce. The balls are no more magical than the rope that you cut in two and restore. The magic... is in the magician, not the props. I would guess that one reason that Cardini would toss the billiard balls away in his act was to prove their solidity. They didn't bounce much, true, but the loud "THUD!" as they hit the stage no doubt impressed the audience, proving to them that the balls are not "magical, trick objects" but very solid, real world, ordinary balls. I'm sure Cardini treated those balls with a lot of respect! ----- Sonny
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
I disagree respectfully (and partly as the devil's advocate) with Michael's comment about bouncing the ball being a negative aspect of Elliott's routine. Michael commented that the balls "are magical objects which you are handling. Treat them as such, not as toys." I don't feel that the balls are any more magical than, say, the rope that a magician cuts and restores. The magic is not in the balls or the rope, it's in the magician. To me, bouncing the balls is a way of proving to the audience that these are ordinary, solid rubber balls like you would find in toy store or sporting goods store. When Cardini produced billiard balls, he tossed them onto the stage at the end of the routine partly to prove their solidity and the fact that they were heavy objects. They didn't bounce much, to be sure. But they no doubt made a loud "thud!" as they hit the stage.
When lay people try to work out how a multiplying ball routine works, one of their first guesses is that the balls are hollow and nest inside each other. Bouncing the balls forces them to re-think that guess. Just my zwei Pfennige. Of course, if you're representing the balls as either golf balls or billiard balls, bouncing them would be counter-productive to the illusion. However, since the balls have no dimples, stripes or numbers on them, they are obviously neither golf balls nor billiard balls. They are ordinary balls that one might find in a Toys R Us or Sports Authority store. And a lot of ordinary balls in a toy store or sporting goods store do bounce. One of the best ball routines I've ever seen is Greg Frewin's where he throws two balls onto the stage and they bounce up and become two doves. Now THAT'S MAGIC! ----- Sonny P.S. I know this might have been a quick demo video placed on the Café for critique, but I would have zoomed the camera in a little more. One of the rules of composition in film and video is to leave only a little space above the talent's head. There is way too much space above your head. Although you may not have had a camera operator, at least you could have zoomed the camera in so that the top of your backdrop was at the top of the viewfinder.
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Wow, Sonny! You spanked me in two separate back to back posts! LOL!
OK, let me attempt to persuade you to see my POV, while conceding to yours, as well. He bounces the balls on three separate occasions. I think that is too many. Personally, I think the best time (and the only time) would be right after he produces the first ball (knot in silk changing to ball). At that point the ball can be tossed into the air and caught, then tossed up again but allowed to bounce on the floor. This would establish everything you are arguing for, and it would give clarity to people even in the back row, from the get-go, what it is he holds. Placement of that action would be better than it is now. Follow immediately by setting the silk aside, then go into a ball roll to set up the next couple of moves. That establishes skill leading into the actual manipulation. Currently, the first bounce happens at a seemingly random point and seems somewhat out of place. He does a good ball roll, then looks at the ball and throws it down in kind of a "F*** it!" manner. I just think it looks odd.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bill Wilson Special user 536 Posts |
Bouncing the ball at the start is a good idea, it helps to establish it as to what it is, a ball. Mr. Baker's point is spot on when he says once is enough, anymore is overkill. Besides, the ball like any ball can take a mean bounce and off it goes. Why take the chance of that happening. I still say that all that artsy crap with the hands, arms and postures is way to much. Maybe just a little, if you think it's important but once again don't over do it.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
There is a difference between Artistry and conflict of several different moods and movements all mixed together. What I see is music that does not fit the clothing and fast gestures of the performer. So we have dark emotional clothing, soft dramatic music, and while actions that do not fit either. With some thought as to what is trying to be accomplished, besides a Billiard Ball routine, it may bring it all together.
The sleights and moves from what I could make out look good, and with the poor lighting it took me a while to figure out you were producing different colored balls. This has not been done much and is a WOW factor to build on by emphasizing it. When I remarked on the extended arms, I did not say to bring them close in front of the body, that is someone else's interpretation of my comments. I simply meant that having your arm extended at arms length above your head looked out of place. Simply bend the elbow slightly and lower to shoulder height. It bring it in line with your face. For a finale you could do a arm sweep from your chest to stretching out and above at that point. It is not good to "advance" on your audience, that body language is threating to the onlooker, as you did with balls in your hands. Kind of said, "In your face", look at me. Someone mentioned smiling, and that is true, I never seen a villain that smiled, they did sneer, but never smile, unless it was an evil smile. You clothing says, evil, thus I go along with what was mentioned, only break character at the very end for your acknowledgement of their applause. As to bouncing the ball. Tim Wright did a neat thing during his ball routine that always got good audience reaction. He would put backspin on the ball as he mistakenly dropped a ball, thus the ball bounced right back to him to his waiting hand. It looked magical and unexpected. Surprise the audience whenever you can with a trick, that impresses the audience and gets good reactions from them. Someone mentioned that I gave some hard criticism. That is how the reader perceives my comments, and if they do, I have no control over their bad moods. You have the technical part, but it the theatrical part that need critiquing and work on. Right now what I seen was a cocky kid showing off, and not a performing wishing to entertain. If that is hard, sorry, that is what I saw. Again, that attitude had nothing to do with the music or the costume in the video. Character is probably the hardest part of stage presentation and it should not be taken lightly. If you doubt what I am saying, just sign up for some magic contests. Several offer a critiquing panel after the contest to tell how to improve a contestant's performance. Although, I don't think I would like being told these thing face to face and be a looser as well in the contest. I think everyone here offering suggestions to you, should be taken as just that, something for you think about. If you have access to a dramatic director in school or at your local civic theater, then why not get some additional advice from a professional. Many times these directors have produced big Broadway shows and can give you some direction as to staying in character, and what your character is trying to convey. Look at Dan Sperry, he is very "out there" with is forceful attack on his audience, but his make-up and clothing makes his actions something to be expected, thus he is not threating enough for people to leave the theater. We know very little about you, as over the years you have kind of been a prankster as I recall. Not that gone to fun to "IN YOUR FACE" type of attitude coming across to the view. Maybe pull back just a little, or take some acting classes and find out about the different type of characters. It has been said many times, the best performers are themselves, thus the advice is to be yourself on stage when presenting magic to tell the audience who you are. If we seen in this video is who you really are, then forget all the comments in this forum as we see you for who you are, if not, then take some of the excellent advice and think about it. It is, in the end your choice, now isn't it. |
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Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts |
Elliott,
Nice job!
Ihor
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