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Oliver Ross
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Hi everybody,

I'm looking forward to put some illusions into my current magic show. After reading Duane Laflin's book "On stage with illusions" I've made up a list of different illusions that might be interesting to add to my show. Of course I don't intend to put all of them in the show. Smile

Now here's my quest : I would like to know if a few owners of those illusions could help me and tell me if those illusions :

1) Can be broken down for transport ?
2) If yes, in how many cases they fit ?
3) And the dimensions of the packing crates (ATA cases) ?

The reason is very obvious, I need to see if I would have enough space to transport them in a van, pass them through doors and store them when they're not in use.

Here's the list of the illusions :

- Classic Thin Sawing
- Owen Sword Basket with table
- Blammo Box
- Zig Zag
- Fairchild's Body Slicer
- Jim Steinmeyer's Modern Art
- The Wakeling Sawing
- Jim Steinmeyer's Op Art
- Jim Steinmeyer's Shadow Theater
- Jim Steinmeyer's Audience Dismember
- Classic Mismade Girl
- Jim Steinmeyer's Bit's and Pieces
- Barricaded Barrels Illusion
- Mark Parker's 180
- Clearly Impossible
- Puchinger's Kube Zag
- Daniel Summers' Foul Play
- Walter Blaney's Ladder Levitation

Please feel free to PM me if needed. Thank you very much in advance for all your help.


Oliver.
jay leslie
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How about we work from a more practical angle?

You say you have a van. What size it it? What are the venues? How much money do you have?
Pakar Ilusi
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I say, from experience, make a good stepped deceptive base on casters/wheels.

Make it so different vanishes, appearances, transpos and whatever else can be placed on top of it for different shows. If you look at it objectively, many different illusions use very similar bases. So make a kind of 'universal base', if you may, and it'll save you tons of money...

Then you can seemingly add many illusion acts into your show. One new one every few shows. Just find new tops to the base. I advise you to play only one incarnation per show though unless you have enough hands backstage to put things together.

This was my approach before I gave it all up to become a Mentalist.

But that's another story. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Ingo Brehm
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Sorry, but I don't think that it is a good idea to develop your program with you "logistic restraints" in mind in the first place. I would rather suggest to think about your act and which illusion would fit it perfectly. Then learn as much about the illusion as you can and decide if you can afford, transport and - mostly forgotten as some illusions require more space then your living room will provide Smile - rehearse it.
Mike Maturen
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I would agree with both Ingo and Jay on this one...
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
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989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
Mike Maturen
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I would agree with both Ingo and Jay on this one...
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
Frank Simpson
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I tend to disagree with the "Universal Base" concept, with no ill feelings toward our friend Pakar Ilusi.

An illusion's base is so integral to its design that, although it seems like a great idea on the surface, it requires many compromises along the way. The proportions of the box that sits atop a base have a HUGE influence on how the base should be designed; where the cheats are, what kind are used, and what size or even what color. If you use something that "works for everything" individual sacrifices must be made to the detriment of the effect(s).

It is stated that "...if you look at it objectively, many different illusions use very similar bases." Similar in principle and purpose, but really very different in terms of overall design. The differences may be subtle, but we all know that subtlety is one of the most important aspects of our craft!

Sure there will be a few instances where it could work. A Doll House that swaps out for a Temple of Angee, because they are essentially the same illusion, just dressed differently. And of course for that very reason you would be wise to not perform both in the same show.

To me it is rather like the idea of a "multi-purpose room" in a school. When I toured with a Children's Theatre company years ago we had our own name for them; the "multi-useless room"...it's just not quite right for anything. They always said that they'd be great for a performance space. Unfortunately, for the 90% of the time they're not performing, it is used as as storage space, or even a classroom, so when it comes time to try to pour a show into it, nothing can be satisfactorily moved, and certainly not far enough out of the way.

When I was putting tegether my first illusion show, I did it exactly the way Jay mentioned. Then (as Ingo says) I looked for the illusions that fit me and my style.

It always seems to be an ever-evolving process.
Pakar Ilusi
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Then we will have to agree to disagree. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Oliver Ross
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Hi everybody,

Thank you very much for all your replies and kind suggestions, but I'm just in search for the datas I've asked for. I've read different books concerning illusions and how to put a show together; Duane Laflin's book being the last one. So basicly I just follow what he has written in his book. Smile

I'm not saying that I know everything about illusions and how to put a show together, but I'm convinced that I've done until now what needs to be done. The way someone goes and the method used isn't important, it's the goal. At least in my humble opinion. Some ways may be less efficient then others, but as long as you reach the goal or the final result, I think any way will do.

Anyway, to answer the few questions :

- Money isn't a problem in first place.

- I'm not saying that I would like to put all illusions in a show. The list is composed of illusions I like and that I think fit my personnality. At the end everything is just a game of presentation style. This means I already did a pre-choice of illusions coming from a much longer list, that I have sinces a few years.

- The venues are important as Jay suggested, since someone can't present any illusion in any given situation. In my case I've got a place where I do a show every week with a stage, lighting and sound equipment and this since nine years. So I'm very happy that I have the chance to work on my show constantly.

- Concerning the suggestion of an Universal Base used in different illusion, I agree with Frank's comment. I've seen, and I still have some pictures of Ken Whittaker's (Creative Illusions) Multi-Base Illusion System, but I'm not really convinced that this will do any good to a show using the same base for different illusions. I stay with Frank on this one. Sorry Pakar. Smile

Well, I hope this will give you a little bit more insight into my illusion show project. In hope to get still some data from some illusion owners of the above listed illusions. Smile

Magically Yours,


Oliver.
Oliver Ross
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Hi everybody,

Thank you very much for all your replies and kind suggestions, but I'm just in search for the datas I've asked for. I've read different books concerning illusions and how to put a show together; Duane Laflin's book being the last one. So basicly I just follow what he has written in his book. Smile

I'm not saying that I know everything about illusions and how to put a show together, but I'm convinced that I've done until now what needs to be done. The way someone goes and the method used isn't important, it's the goal. At least in my humble opinion. Some ways may be less efficient then others, but as long as you reach the goal or the final result, I think any way will do.

Anyway, to answer the few questions :

- Money isn't a problem in first place.

- I'm not saying that I would like to put all illusions in a show. The list is composed of illusions I like and that I think fit my personnality. At the end everything is just a game of presentation style. This means I already did a pre-choice of illusions coming from a much longer list, that I have sinces a few years.

- The venues are important as Jay suggested, since someone can't present any illusion in any given situation. In my case I've got a place where I do a show every week with a stage, lighting and sound equipment and this since nine years. So I'm very happy that I have the chance to work on my show constantly.

- Concerning the suggestion of an Universal Base used in different illusion, I agree with Frank's comment. I've seen, and I still have some pictures of Ken Whittaker's (Creative Illusions) Multi-Base Illusion System, but I'm not really convinced that this will do any good to a show using the same base for different illusions. I stay with Frank on this one. Sorry Pakar. Smile

Well, I hope this will give you a little bit more insight into my illusion show project. In hope to get still some data from some illusion owners of the above listed illusions. Smile

Magically Yours,


Oliver.
jay leslie
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The blamo is a fast opener tonproduce an assistant and I wouldn't but it first because it's so short.

Modern art znd mismade are taller so people in the back can see it better but that still brings us back to the type of venue. How high is the stage? How many seats? Is there a proscenium or apron? The mismade and the sword basket (any model) can be presented with a humorus presentation... But that brings/up yet another question ax to your style and personality.

So it might be best to look at YouTube videos and see all the presentations others are doing, then go from there.
paulapaul
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I would select the 3 - 5 illusions that you would most like to do, then ask the manufacturers for specs. From there, you could keep, or replace, illusions in your list. What you are asking for - the specs of many illusions - is asking for someone to do a lot of work. This work, unfortunately, is one of the things that generally an individual has to do.

I may be wrong. Perhaps there is someone who has the specs for a lot of illusions at the ready. But, if they do, this information cost tens of thousands (or more), or a lot of research, to obtain. They may not be inclined to freely give out that info. However, the manufacturers would be more than happy to supply all the weight and size info you desire.

I hope this moves you one step closer to getting the information you seek. Good luck in all your endeavors.

Paula
Oliver Ross
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Thank you Jay for your insight on a few particular illusions. I really appreciate this. Smile

To give you some more insight into my character, I'm more a situational comedy magician, using humor and interactivity to bring the magic over to the audience, even willing to make humor on myself. I've got a few curiousity acts in my show and a nice slow, warm hearted ending (not the famous snowstorm of China) to contrast the rest of the show.

Paula,

Thank you aswell for your kind reply and suggestions. Contacting the illusion builders would have been my next step if I can't get any data from other illusion owners here on the Café, even though I think that what I'm asking for is very easy to answer... At least I think so, but I might be wrong... Smile I know it will take some time to mesure the dimensions of the ATA cases or packing crates that contain the illusions. To make things clear, I'm not asking for the actual mesurements of the illusions themself, just the cases.

Anyway what you've suggested will certainly be my next step to get the informations I'm looking for.

Thank you very much again, and if someone is still willing to share their informations and insight, you're most welcome. My eyes will stay open wide for them. Please feel free to PM me if needed.


Oliver.
Oliver Ross
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Thank you Jay for your insight on a few particular illusions. I really appreciate this. Smile

To give you some more insight into my character, I'm more a situational comedy magician, using humor and interactivity to bring the magic over to the audience, even willing to make humor on myself. I've got a few curiousity acts in my show and a nice slow, warm hearted ending (not the famous snowstorm of China) to contrast the rest of the show.

Paula,

Thank you aswell for your kind reply and suggestions. Contacting the illusion builders would have been my next step if I can't get any data from other illusion owners here on the Café, even though I think that what I'm asking for is very easy to answer... At least I think so, but I might be wrong... Smile I know it will take some time to mesure the dimensions of the ATA cases or packing crates that contain the illusions. To make things clear, I'm not asking for the actual mesurements of the illusions themself, just the cases.

Anyway what you've suggested will certainly be my next step to get the informations I'm looking for.

Thank you very much again, and if someone is still willing to share their informations and insight, you're most welcome. My eyes will stay open wide for them. Please feel free to PM me if needed.


Oliver.
jay leslie
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If your a funny person then a Bow Sawing would play better then the box type sawing illusions because there is more interaction that lends itself to comedy.
And if you aren't used to pushing illisions a bow sawing will be good experience to get you to the next level.

I think YouTube is calling your name
magicbymccauley
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I say why work so hard. People like a good show. It doesn't have to be all illusions. Pick your workhorses: 3-5 illusions that you can use under almost any circumstances and that get the most applause, and concentrate on those. Fill the rest of the show with stage magic with really big props, throw in a few escapes and now we're talking. Think about what PLAYS big, not what IS BIG.

I was recently reading a book about illusions and escapes, and the person summed something up very well which I had been thinking of which is that "The venue and the audience is your enemy, attack them. Use countermeasures, use strategy". Which can be summed up as "Why? Because F-U! You're my enemy, that's why!". Go the extra mile to make sure you win the battle of deception with each audience member.

In other words instead of trying to find the perfect illusion for all circumstances, change the circumstances to fit the illusion and be brutal about it. Use baffles, set up on the sides, so that you have no bad angles. Check your angles from the seats. Use any effects of music, lighting, fog, etc to get the job done. Move the illusion back or forward. Make the audience think it's done with one method, then pull the rug out from under them. Put red herrings into illusions that make people confused about which method you could have used. Distract and misdirect from the method. Make the illusion more about the story than the method and people won't look so hard for the method.

I think the quest for the perfect illusion can actually make it so that you paint yourself into a corner, you start saying "No fog, no mirrors, no use of lighting, no music, completely visual and uncovered, no extra assistants, nothing else on the stage but the illusion" and on and on and on until the method is pretty bare and out there.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven
magicbymccauley
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Wow I just realized Paula said the exact same thing as me three posts up.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven
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