The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Billets? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
mysticz
View Profile
Special user
D.C. metro area
680 Posts

Profile of mysticz
The bottom line is -- if you cannot perform a center tear effectively, use your switch, your peek wallet, etc. The effectiveness of any technique is directly related to the proficiency of the performer to execute it in a natural, deceptive manner.

I use billet switches as well as center tears depending on the circumstance, presentation, etc. I find both techniques to be equally effective with drawbacks peculiar to each method. However, I would never say one is inferior to the other. I would say they are both important.

JZ
Joe Zabel
"Psychic Sorcery"

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

-- Shakespeare's Hamlet I.v. 174-175
ddyment
View Profile
Inner circle
Gibsons, BC, Canada
2375 Posts

Profile of ddyment
Alain noted:
Quote:
[Centre Tear] Disadvantages: Writing is limited to an area of the paper...
True, but easily dealt with in several ways, and with modern tears the area isn't that limited.

Quote:
the mind reader must handle the billet...
Also true with the switch, though Alain doesn't list this as a disadvantage of the latter.

Quote:
the rationale for tearing it needs explanation...
Many solutions available here (such as those mentioned by Bob Cassidy)... the easiest being simply some form of, "We don't need this any more."

Quote:
method has been exposed in some circles.
I love it when the participant has heard about centre tears, as this will almost certainly be of the "hold back the centre" variety. Modern versions of the tear (Kurtz, Stride, Bernstein, Hilford, Osterlind] tear up everything and leave all the pieces with the participant. So you're obviously not doing a centre tear. Smile

... Doug
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
A l a i n B e ll o n
View Profile
Veteran user
301 Posts

Profile of A l a i n B e ll o n
Ok, you all have made great points regarding the center tear. Some advantages and disadvantages to center tears and switches. They are all wery important and intelligent arguments.

Originally what made me stop using center tear was that I performed quite often at science seminars. This is the kind of audience that mentalism is really hard to sell on the outset. Once you cut all the possible solutions for them they will think they are smart enough not to be fooled and that's when you got them. But you have to go past that first step and it is harder in this case. While nobody ever saw anything, some of the more skeptic ones assumed that, somehow, I had been able to look at the writing while the paper was in my hands. Once I started using a switch instead of a center tear I stopped hearing this notion. A switch routined as Bob Cassidy does, will convince the audience you never touched anything.

Doug,

Yes you are right the billet must be handled but if you read my words carefully you will see that I made emphasis on the amount of time and the importance of the handling action. A switch can be done by just taking the billet from one person to another, an action that is both brief and invisible as it is not accomplishing anything of importance. On the other hand the center tear must be torn (well yes there are center tears where the tearing is done invisibly these are better). Tearing a billet is not an invisible action in terms of memory unless you have an excellent misdirection.

I still think that minimizing the contact time or the contact action with the billet is a good thing. With a switch it is easy to make the contact an invisible memory, with the center tear not as easy.

Mysticz,

A peek wallet you say? I shudder at the notion Smile In practice I use more the Obsidian techniques than switches. It is much more practical and totally impromptu.

Doug said:
"... So you're obviously not doing a centre tear."

You got that right. Smile

-Alain Bellon
Jonathan
View Profile
Inner circle
Oklahoma
1223 Posts

Profile of Jonathan
I've never been too wild on the "we don't need this anymore" justification of using a centre tear. What did you need it for in the first place? I think the writing it down to imprint it in your mind works wonderfully well for this but it's the only way I know of that's any good.

I will say there's only one time in my life when I should have used the centre tear but I didn't and I kick myself every time I think about it. I ruined everything by not using it. However, in impromptu situations that's the only time it came up to use the tear instead of the switch.

But I would like to learn more about the modern tears. All I know about is the tears in Corinda. What are the best centre tears and where can I find info on them?

"Effective mentalism requires that you appear to be improvising as you go along."

I have to say this is most true statement I've seen on here in a long time! I've been saying that for a long time but most mentalists just can't understand that a reherased perfect routine has drawbacks in close-up mentalism. I've been a close-up performer exclusively a long time before going into stage which I did a year or two ago. While you should be polished, your act shouldn't look polished like you've practiced this "routine" a million times. It should look as if you have power and are trying to find a way to demonstrate it.

Here's the problem. When I first tried stage mentalism I failed miserably. The effects were out of this world but the "improvisation" presentation went over horribly on stage. I'm getting better making it more like a magic effect in presentation (as far as polish goes). Any advice on this subject?

Jonathan Grant
Alex Reeve
View Profile
New user
63 Posts

Profile of Alex Reeve
there is a way to use the "we don't need this anymore" justification which was pointed out by someone else on another thread. You ask a person to write down the info so they can show it to someone else without saying anything that you might hear, then you tear the paper because you don't need it anymore!
in this case there is a reason why you needed to write down the info in the first place.

Cordially,

Alex
Marc Spelmann
View Profile
Special user
London U.K.
666 Posts

Profile of Marc Spelmann
I ahve to admit that since the exposure programme described the centre tear I ahve been more inclined to switch a billet but I do use business cards a lot as part of my act which is perfect for stage / close up & informal situations.. I think what it boils down to is the real skill apart from the move is to be able to read a situation and use whatever it takes to make your life easier and the effect more amazing.. but don't be put off by the name 'Billet' I remember being a 12 year old and reading the word 'Billet' in Annemans classic and thought it was something old.. It sounds much more appealing as a scrap of paper which is an angle I like to use, rather than give them a pre cut billet I like to have a A4 sheet that I rip into scraps so that more than one person can get invloved, almost as a second thought.. In close up situations often I rip the paper out of a cigarette packet.. The less contrived it is the better.. To really research I would suggest.. Practical Mental Magic... 13 Steps... Lee Earls Center tear video... Bob Cassidys Mental Miracles... (Which fooled the hell out of me... but I love that..) and a lovely 3 Billet routine can be found in Andy Nymans first set of lecture notes..

Happy hunting

M.S.
It's not goodbye, just see you later...
Julien
View Profile
Regular user
108 Posts

Profile of Julien
although there are quite a bunch of justifications, the "we don't need that any more is odd". If you don't need it, why take it back from them in the first place, very akward...

J
Quentin
View Profile
Inner circle
1015 Posts

Profile of Quentin
Matias,
I am quite sure that the David Lustig who worked with Dunninger was not the guy who sold the Eiffel tower
E-Leoni
View Profile
Veteran user
USA
358 Posts

Profile of E-Leoni
I use billets, and center tear at every performance, combined with cold reading, they will never remember the paper, pencil, or even writing a thing down. All they remember is you reading their thoughts, and how in the hell did you know about the palm tree, swiming pool, the accident they had when they were 12, etc etc,.stuff they didn't write down. The information they write down is an after thought. eg: "Oh and was her name Janet ?"
I believe the information that you are retaining to reveal after the effect should be thought of as an out. Incase you mess up the cold reading. Which is very very rare. You can not mess up a cold reading.
That piece of information they wrote down, doesnt' even have to be revealed sometimes.
Bob Cassidy is a master at this.

E-Leoni.
Cornelius
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
213 Posts

Profile of Cornelius
Quote:
On 2002-05-27 23:51, Jonathan wrote:
I do them a lot! I think it's one of the main tools in a mentalist's belt! They've done as much for me in creating miracles as anything else.

Jonathan Grant



Actually, I use billets all the time in my stage and club presentations. Although, when I do close-up work, I only do the center tear. However, I'm working on Annemann and soon I'll be able to do switching close-up as well.

From,
Cornelius. Smile
Jarroy
View Profile
New user
Birmingham
17 Posts

Profile of Jarroy
Cornelius you should look up some of the Bob Cassidy billet switches. I use them all the time for close up work.

Best

Jarroy Smile
Jonathan
View Profile
Inner circle
Oklahoma
1223 Posts

Profile of Jonathan
Bob Cassidys Mental Miracles

Is this different than the art of mentalism books?

Jonathan Grant
Jonathan
View Profile
Inner circle
Oklahoma
1223 Posts

Profile of Jonathan
Speak of the devil, I just had the opportunity last night of all nights where I needed to use the centre tear. It worked perfectly! Believe it or not, she actually figured out the billet switch routine! She's the first person in all the many times I've done to figure it out!!! What kind of jinx did you guys put on me? LOL! She's very smart and logical though. So, I did it again, this time ripping up the billet just to prove there are no switches. It worked, you should have seen her face. It proved I didn't use the switch in the first one which really created a melding of the two effects which will be impossible to figure out.

JOnathan Grant
A l a i n B e ll o n
View Profile
Veteran user
301 Posts

Profile of A l a i n B e ll o n
Jonathan I guess that is a good use of a center tear Smile

Now the great thing about the kind of experience you describe is that you may be able to pin-point a weakness in your switch routine that perhaps you didn't know was there.

Capablanca—a great chess player and a personal favorite—used to say that nothing is gained from winning a game but that we can learn a lot from losing one.

-Alain Bellon
Jonathan
View Profile
Inner circle
Oklahoma
1223 Posts

Profile of Jonathan
Well she went through it backwards and remembered the only time I ever touched the billet. It was the mood and setting of the performance that did it. I can't explain it but it doesn't really surprise me. Normally I do it a bit differently.

Jonathan GRant
leondo
View Profile
Special user
Las Vegas
759 Posts

Profile of leondo
[.....nothing is gained from winning a game but that we can learn a lot from losing one....]

WOW! Lesson learned.

Thanks,
Ted (Leondo)
Allen Gittelson
View Profile
Regular user
San Francisco
145 Posts

Profile of Allen Gittelson
Mistakes are one of the areas that I learn the most from, but I certainly also learn from success. Making and taking opportunities to learn and grow can make a tremendous difference.

In thoughts,
Allen
Bambaladam
View Profile
Special user
636 Posts

Profile of Bambaladam
Success gives confidence, failure opens your eyes.

Anyway, I think the greatest mindreader in Chess was Tal.

Let's get a poll going.

/bamba
John Smetana
View Profile
???? - 2009
499 Posts

Profile of John Smetana
Quote:
On 2002-05-29 06:50, matias wrote:
Quote:
Bob Cassidy wrote:
...Dunninger when Dave Lustig was his front man and aide.
"David Lustig" as in "the man who sold the Eiffel tower supposedly as a pile of garbage... twice" ?

Would you Bob, or anyone, please care to tell us how Dunninger and Lustig were acquainted? (perhaps in a new thread). I'm really curious. Mr Lustig was as far as I know an ingenious criminal con man, convicted for the above mentioned crime (among other things?). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

/Matias



Hi Matias,
The guy you're thinking of was Victor"The COunt" Lustig. Sold the Eiffel Tower twice and also sold a money making machine more than once when he needed to generate seed money.

Best thoughts,
John Smetana Smile
Victor Brisbin
View Profile
Elite user
Washington, DC / NOVA
432 Posts

Profile of Victor Brisbin
Quote:
Hi Matias,
The guy you're thinking of was Victor"The Count" Lustig. Sold the Eiffel Tower twice and also sold a money making machine more than once when he needed to generate seed money.
John Smetana Smile

Nice catch on the Lustig reference, John. David Lustig "La Vellma" was apparently a character in his own right, while Victor "The Count" Lustig could and did sell the Eiffel Tower more than once to supposedly rational businessmen. Smile
"It is better to practice a little than talk a lot." - Muso Kokushi
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Billets? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL