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rickreation Veteran user 338 Posts 
Lovely idea Steve! I think the OOTW plot has powerful possibilities when used with other items. Derren Brown proved this with photographs of living and dead people on one of his TV specials. Think about that premise with Bruce's plot and there are some delicious possibilities.


Rolyan Special user I'm fencing in my land; so far there are 590 Posts 
Re Separation Anziety
For my own performing style I much prefer using a borrowed deck. So, for those who know SA, having counted the 10 card pile, is there a way of knowing the number of cards to turn without looking at the faces AND without having to do the complicated counting/maths in the head. I want to count the pile then keep them face down, but am having trouble doing the necessary counting of two things. 

John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12564 Posts 
If you own it you know this.
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Rolyan Special user I'm fencing in my land; so far there are 590 Posts 
I own it and don't know it, hence the question. So, to reiterate......
I want to do it impromptu with a borrowed deck, but I'm having trouble doing the necessary secret counting. So I wondered if anyone has a way of doing the secret count that does not involve counting 2 things at once, which is the bit I'm struggling with. 

John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12564 Posts 
If you own it you should know it?
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!


ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2388 Posts 
Even if all this were not covered in Bruce's book (which it is), methodological issues are not a fit topic for this publiclyaccessible portion of the CafÃ©.
Use the nonpublic area!
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Rolyan Special user I'm fencing in my land; so far there are 590 Posts 
Clearly neither of you are grasping what I'm trying to explain. Its NOT all covered in the $25 download (which regardless of what some are suggesting I DO own); to do it as I want to do it needs a double count. I'll see if I can find someone able to help elsewhere. In the meantime, if anyone wants to help, they can always pm me. If they really need evidence of ownership, I'll give answers to any questions about any word on any line on any page.


John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12564 Posts 
Quote:
On 20140213 16:28, Rolyan wrote: What Doug is alluding to is that we don't discuss intricate details of things in any forum other than IT. You need 50 posts to be able to post in IT The IT forum isn't Google searchable.
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Rolyan Special user I'm fencing in my land; so far there are 590 Posts 
I fully appreciate what Doug is alluding to. I was simply hoping that someone could cryptically answer my question, even by pm. Its more than possible to do this without giving anything away to those not in the know, I've helped many myself this way over many years. However, It's no hassle, we are having a session at the Frik 'n' Firkin shortly, I'll run it past the lads there.


Cluckdini New user This stunt chicken telekinetically typed 75 Posts 
FYI, Bernstein talks about leveraging some subtleties from Jon Armstrong's OOTBBB (which he says was the inspiration for SA) in the SA pdf. You don't need to know OOTBBB to learn SA but the discussion of OOTBBB doesn't make much sense in that case, and I was starting to wonder if I was missing something significant.
From the OOTBBB thread, I just discovered that OOTBBB is both performed and explained in Reel magic issue #19. It was very cool to be able to instantly stream that (since I subscribe) and now those pages make sense. I currently like SA "as is" but I like that I now have more of a safety net (the OOTBBB shuffle corner cases) if things go wrong early on. 

PatrickGregoire Inner circle 1953 Posts 
I just got this and was wondering  is Bruce suggesting to give the false explanation after the first phase or the second? It's very unclear in the PDF.
Also, if you use that explanation, then what's the presentational angle of then having them do it again but also making an error on the ace of spades? How does the false method explain that (logicwise)? And if it's not supposed to, doesn't that smash two concepts together and muddy the plot for the spectators? 

PatrickGregoire Inner circle 1953 Posts 
Thinking further about this, it would have to be after the second phase, because if it's revealed after the first  now everyone knows what to look for and they will clearly see that the spectator is NOT successfully separating the colours as they are dealing...
But if it IS revealed after the second phase, then as stated in my previous post  it then just raises a conflicting question in their minds  "Ok, but how did you get me to put the ace of spades in the wrong pile?" And at least to me, that's not a good mystery as it just confuses the plot when it clashes with the pseudoexplanation. I hope this makes sense. Any help clarifying how this is supposed to go is much appreciated, of course PM's are welcome to keep the method a secret. 

Illusion77 Veteran user 382 Posts 
Thanks for all of the information on this.


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