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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mixing Mentalism & Magic on AGT (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mindpro
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Quote:
On 2013-09-05 09:57, stubbs360 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-05 09:21, Mindpro wrote:

I agree with Martin, anytime something is reduced to a street level it instantly loses credibility. If you saw a street corner or park with a "street surgeon" offering brain surgery or heart surgery, how much credibility would it have? If it became popular and more widespread it would confuse and affect the perception of brain surgeons. People would wonder who is credible and how is a hustler.

altough one obstacle created here might be that this person will not want to see another mentalist after seeing the magician, but it also applies to just bad mentalists


Yes, I agree, very correct. The problem is most "bad mentalists" are just that - magicians trying to be or be perceived as mentalists. I guess this was one of my original points to begin with. And yes, as one would expect it does cheapen or reduce the art of mentalism.
Mark_Chandaue
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In my almost 40 years in magic as a hobbiest, a dealer, pro and semi pro I have met great magicians, great mentalists and I have met poor magicians and poor mentalists and some of those poor mentalists have never been magicians. The only thing that is new today is the Internet and YouTube. TV Talent shows existed back then in fact Paul Daniels got his big break on the tv talent show opportunity knocks in 1970.

Both opportunity knocks and new faces had more than their share of average magicians, some of whom performed mental magic. When I was table hopping right back in 1981/82 there were more than enough magicians doing mental magic. Likewise on the club and holiday camp circuit I met plenty of magicians and a few mentalists, and several magicians that had mental effects in their act. Some were great, some were poor and most of us on the circuit were somewhere in the middle.

The point being the public have been exposed to poor magicians and mentalists as long as I have been alive and no doubt longer whether it be on TV, in clubs, pubs, holiday camps, on the street (buskers) and in restaurants. Martin says that in the Uk mentalism was associated with Derren Brown but that's only in the last 10 years, prior to that since Uri Geller the only experience of mentalism that the Great British public had been exposed to was exactly the kind of performance that people are panicking about today, table hoppers doing mental magic, holiday camp performers of variable quality, and average (and mostly forgettable) performances on TV talent shows. Yet the moment a credible mentalist in Derren Brown comes along the public judge him solely on his own merits, not on the performances of others and a star is born.

The public recognise crap and appreciate quality, they don't care whether you label yourself a magician, mentalist, psychic or psychological entertainer, they only care whether you entertain them, and that's not likely to change. We notice magicians and mentalists because it is what we are interested in, but unless someone really stands out the public neither notice or care. The average person on the street that watches BGT religiously probably does not even remember there was a mentalist on BGT let alone remembers his name. Ask any non magician if they remember Colin McLeod on BGT and 99% of them will say Who?

Music was a pretty good analogy because there are a million times more awful musicians and singers than there are mentalists full stop and yet the public still appreciate a good singer in a overcrowded market of both great and abysmal singers. We go looking for magic, magicians and mentalists and are exposed to it every single day but the average person on the street is rarely exposed to it. Most of the people I perform to have neither seen a magician or a mentalist close up and that's true for most of us on this forum. Ask the average Brit to name 3 mentalists and most will struggle to get past Derren Brown and those that get past Derren will probably name Patrick Jayne as their second and not manage to get to three.

The sky isn't falling, it never was. Maybe the likes of Derren Brown have caused increased interest in mentalism, some will dabble for a while and go back to magic when the buzz dies down, others will fall in love with it and try to learn to do it justice. Judging by some very old YouTube videos Pete Turner started out as a magician, those that fall in love with the art could Mage a contribution to the art, the fly by nights will have zero impact on it. Me personally, I switched to mentalism because my hands don't work as well as they used to and they are getting worse not better but my mind is still sharp and so I decided to try sleight of mind instead of sleight of hand. I fell in love with it and in the coming years I will study and learn and gain as much experience as I can so that one day I can do the art justice. I know I am not the only ex magician that feels that way.

Mark
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Synesthesia
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Beautifully said, Mark. That one's getting bookmarked!
lunatik
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Watching some big name mentalists is about as exciting as watching paint dry. They may be great coming up with effects, but gag me with a spoon if I have to watch them perform
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PhilDean
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Quote:
On 2013-09-04 22:56, Mindpro wrote:
Great contribution Phil moving this thread forward, thanks we all appreciate it.


It's better than your contribution which to me sounds like this.

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"

Get over yourselves. He's a magician. He's having a go. Support your brothers and if you really don't like what he's doing, perhaps find him (which is easy on Facebook) and express your concerns. It sickens me to see so called 'pros' publicly tearing down one of their own. Pull your heads in.
Godzilla
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Well,that escalated quickly...
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
PhilDean
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Brick killed a guy...with a trident!
twistedace
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"You should probably lay low for a little while"
twistedace
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I've been impressed with Dittleman on the recent AGT. I like his casual style and his disarming nature. The judges are in awe. Some effects may be standards, but he's doing them well. Then again, he's only doing mentalism. He's not mixing.
mastermindreader
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Yes. Eric was excellent. He was billed just as a "mind reader."
Mark_Chandaue
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I thought long and hard about whether to post this as I don't like to post negatives. However, we are all grown ups here so it's worth asking that in debates such as these people try and stick to attacking people's argument, not attacking the people. Attack the post not the poster as it were. I have an opposing view to some in this debate but I absolutely respect their right to their opinion and also recognise that my opinion is neither more or less valid than theirs it is merely different.

Debates are wonderful things if people stick to giving their reasoning behind their own opinions and challenging the basis for the other sides position. In such a debate both sides can learn from each other or at least enjoy the intellectual sword play. When they degenerate into insults and name calling everybody loses.

Sorry for the mini rant and while it's posted in this thread it is really directed globally. The Café is a great place overall but it's up to all of us to keep it great. Either way we will end up with the forum we deserve.

Mark
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J.Warrens
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Too:much:dogma.

Sorry, I'm having a problem with my colon.
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