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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Starting cups and balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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limhanchung
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Hi
I am thinking of learning cups and balls and chop cups.What props do I need to buy? What books will be suitable for a beginner?

Thanks.
Leeman
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Hollywood, CA
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I would suggest that you start with a rather inexpensive set of cups to start out with to make sure it is something you want to spend the time with. As far as books I would have to say Michael Ammar's cups and balls book and videos, they have a ton of information, not only routines. This way you will have a knowledge of how it all works and you can create your own routine.
Ron Giesecke
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The Ammar Series is probably the best sum total work on the effect, as far as it goes. The rest of the information is consigned to booklets and pamphlets, and much of it is published with the assumption that some previous knowledge of false-transfers and things like that is possesed.

The Dai vernon routine is available, in pamphlet form on places like http://www.abebooks.com. I would recommend using that routine as a starting point, and then make your departures from there.
limhanchung
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What about Table Hopping Cups and Balls by Carl Andrews?
Pete Biro
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You can buy really good enough cups on ebay for not too much money... Learn a BASIC routine, the best one being the Vernon Cups and Balls. The Stevens Greater Magic Series Video on the cups and balls gives you all you need. After you decide you like the trick and can do it well enough to add onto your moves, etc., THEN the Ammar material would help. But I think it is too much for a starting point.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Shawn D
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Hughson,Ca
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I bought a set of cups and ball from Hocus-Pocus for 20 bucks. The set has 3 cups and one is a chop cup.I learned the Carl Andrews routine in a week and have been doing it at the restarunt I am working at and it is really fun to do.I end it differnt with diffenrt loads and more loads though.

I watched the Ammar videos on the cups and balls and they are great also. I will start working on a routine from them this week.I don't think I will do them in a restarunt though.The 2 cup routine is working out great for that.
Shawn
Alex Linian
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I also think The Michael Ammar book (The complete Cups and balls) is one of the better, if not the best resource for learning the cups and balls. The first routine I learned however, was the one on Mark Wilson'Course in Magic, Book. It is a very nice, easy to do routine.
Just my 2 cents,
Alex
Mr. Muggle
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Most likely Shawn's set is a morrise set. They are good beginner cups, but limit you on some more advanced slights. Its what I started with, still have 2 sets somewhere.

Get the Ammar book and DVD's. Its the best out there, in other threads there are other sources for more cups info after you get hooked like most of us.

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
limhanchung
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Ammar Book and DVDs? If I were to choose just one between them, which one should I get?

I just need a routine that is good enough to perform at restaurants.
Alex Linian
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Personally, I don't think the Cups and balls is a routine you should perform at restaurants; to me it requires too much table space. However, others might not feel this way.
Smile
MacGyver
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I think it depends on what resturant you work at, before I started table hopping I was against using table space 100%, everything I had was in the hands or spectators hands...

But now I think at some venues there are times when it would be ok. A lot of times it would be ok, especially on round tables where only two people are sitting, and like 80% of the table is going un-used, a large close-up mat would fit perfect and they would have an un-obstructed view....

obviously not for larger tables, but for ones you know before approaching that there is plenty of tablespace, then it could easily work.

Or if you are smart and have the money and time, get yourself Scott Guinn's table hopper's table mount and build yourself a nice pad to go on it, and never worry about things again.
Shawn D
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I think my cups and balls set is the Buzar set or something like that. I also have a nice Johnson set that is great but I don't take them to the restaurant.

A lot of tables I work at have plenty of room for the Carls Andrews cups and balls. I just lay a napkin down for a pad and go for it. Of course if there isn't enough room then I don't do it. I have plenty in my arsonal to do.

Forgot about the Mark Wilson book. Great book for such a cheap price. I got mine at a used book store for 10 bucks. They had 4 copies there.
Shawn D
what
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To start performing at restaurants, take a look at the routine that Mark Wilson teaches in his Complete Course of Magic. It is simple and surprisingly well received. It resets quickly, and can be embelished and modified easily. Then do as Pete Biro suggested and get the Magic Teach in Video. It has so many good Ideas and 4 different presentations.
Magic is fun!!!
oldwilson_2000
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I don't like the Morrissey Cups very much, because they are far too lightweight. Most moves are much more difficult than with a slightly more expensive set. You should definitely not start by buying the Johnson Cups, but there are some sets for less than a hundred bucks that are a bit heavier. I had a set of Morrissey Cups for some years and never used them after I tried them a few hours. After I got a set from Electrofun Magic (www.electrofunmagic.com) things began to develop. So do yourself a favour and start with Copper or Brass Cups - not Aluminium!
RayBanks
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Wilson does have a very good section on cups and balls,

To learn the moves you could also use some cotton balls and some styrofoam coffee cups or the like.

Beginner video: 25 Tricks with Cups and Balls $10 everywhere.

If you already have the Wilson Complete course you are out nothing unless you spring the $10 for the video mentioned.

If you don't have Wilson, buy it. Another $20 for a lot of instruction in all forms of magic.
-------------
Pick a card, any card...No. not THAT one...THIS one

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MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations limhanchung,

I'll have to second Ray's motion after re-reading your post. Wilson's book is excellent for all-around, general magic, and the cups-and-balls routine is good. And, yes, you can learn to do C&B with cotton balls and styrofoam cups. So, for about $20, you've got a ton of magic as well as a good C&B routine.

My cups was a combo set from Morrisey, which has so far been either praised or panned, depending on the poster. The combo set includes a decent little routine for the C&B and the chop cup. They sealed the deal for me. I have since graduated to much better cups but I keep the Morriseys for sentimental reasons.

If you're still interested, then the Hampton Ridge 25 Tricks with the Cups and Balls is a cost effective source of information, about $10 (USD) in most places. Steven's Cups and Balls Teach-In video is about $20. Then there's Ammar's two-video set, which about covers it all, and teaches Ammar's take on Dai Vernon's routine and shows a clip of Vernon performing the routine. I don't recall how much the set is, but you can get either volumne 1 or 2, or both, and there is an accompanying book as well, and I believe Michael offers a deal on all three from his web site.

Good luck, have fun.

Joe in KC

Live a great adventure, have a magical life!
K-Max
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I will say a word of caution about the combo sets, (the ones with a chop cup).

At some point you may be doing a routine where it is difficult to keep track of the special ball. I have had a lot of success using my combo set, but I've also done some vanishes I wasn't expecting to do! I say that if you like the idea of the combo set get an extra set of balls in a different color that are not "special".

If you have no idea what a chop cup is then I bet this post was confusing. I guess the point I was trying to make was that the combo sets can have their drawbacks too, just like everything else in life.
Mr. Muggle
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K-Max,

If you find it difficult to keep track of the balls with your combo set, I would probably guess that you may need more practice with your routine. Maybe I'm incorrect and you don't, but if that was my problem, that's what I bet it would be. (the voice from experience is reminding me of some pretty embarrassing situations in the past) So in any case, I'll pass along to other new cups workers what I have done to solve this.

Normally when working on a new routine with the cups, I'll write down all the patter lines, with short hand notes referencing what slights to do at what time.

Then I will start from all different places in the routine, to be certain that I know exactly where I am at any given time. This allows you to know your routine inside and out 100%, and stops you from getting stuck or mind boggled in case a spectator throws you off somehow, or incase you do make a mistake.

Its a different way to practice, but one that has worked well for me in the past, especially with the cups.

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
KirkG
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Mr. Muggle,

That was GREAT advice! I only hope Kmax wasn't too insulted to hear that great wisdom. Multiphased routines, like the cups and balls, are easy to "get lost in". Practicing like you suggest, is the best way to overcome that problem.

Again thanks for sharing.

Kirk Grodske
Mr. Muggle
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KirkG & all,

Thanks for your words & I also hope Kmax wasn't insulted. The wording of my post was designed not to insult, but to help.

Hopefully he and others could see that in the reading.

This form of practicing also works for cards, coins, etc. I've found that it helps you learn "mini" routines with-in what your working on. This helps in building new routines, and allows simplified versions to be preformed in some cases.

Just be careful not to cut to much out by shorting a routine. With some effects, shorter isn't necessarily better.

Good Luck-

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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