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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Suffering fools gladly? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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george1953
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Mallorca (Spain)
5941 Posts

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Its getting worse by the minute, as many of you know, I have made several videos for use with certain effects. I have made copies for many people here on the café. I never charge anything, not even for the shipping. Most here on the café are really appreciative of it, but I have had a few instances where they don't even let me know it has arrived safely. One person I contacted to ask if the video had arrived, the one Word email I got back said "yes" that was it. Most folk here are wonderful and I shall continue to share my work, but when these rude people PM me to ask if they cvan have a copy , my one Word response will be "NO",rant over.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
Magicus
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Loyal user
281 Posts

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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 14:49, mastermindreader wrote:
Sean-

That's one of the reasons I've disabled PMs and only exchange them will people I know and/or trust. I know for a fact that a lot of unethical "trading" takes place via PMs.

And, as I've stated many times, I have little patience for anonymous newcomers who provide little to no information about themselves and yet feel that they are entitled to have anything for the asking.

It gets depressing. I've been asked by many fellow professionals why I continue to participate here. It's because I love the art and have made many good friends on the Café over the years. Besides, I tell them, someone has to at least TRY to fight the trivialization that is rapidly happening to our art.


Bob, thank you for all of the wisdom you've shared here.
RCP
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Inner circle
Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
2158 Posts

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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 14:49, mastermindreader wrote:
It gets depressing. I've been asked by many fellow professionals why I continue to participate here. It's because I love the art and have made many good friends on the Café over the years. Besides, I tell them, someone has to at least TRY to fight the trivialization that is rapidly happening to our art.


Bob, let me just say (I) we appreciate you. I train many young professionals in a field of medicine. The most important thing I try to instill is that ones reputation is worth much more than a quick buck. Sadly few get it.
Waters
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2511 Posts

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Thank you all for the comments. I purposely did not mention the person(s), because we all have had a bad day and would like a "do over" on occasion. The point is that it is a sad commentary on where we find ourselves. I have had a few sequences of late that played out in a similar fashion. In each of these, a kindness or pleasant manner was returned with a fury that was not only uncalled for, but surreal. The irony is that the uniting feature of these was that the person's communication was demanding and demeaning. There was not a shred of humility or civility to be found.

So let me say thanks, as others have, to Bob and countless others who have been generous with their experience, knowledge and time. It sounds like a number of us recognize it for what it is... a gift that is freely given. It is appreciated.

Also, to each of you who can have passionate debate and differing opinions and yet conduct yourself with a respectful tone, I salute you. There is nothing wrong with differences of opinions or viewpoints, its just worth communicating them with respect. Each of you has my thanks as well.
Trickstar
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New Zealand
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Hi All

I like this thread, despite the unfortunate situation that initiated it. For quite a number of years I was an avid reader- non-poster on this forum because new posters were pretty well slammed no matter what they said. Awhile back there was a distinct change and I have now started contributing and as a result I have found myself enjoing this place a lot more, so I would like to thank you all for being welcoming and respectful.
Now for the point of my post. When I got back into mentalism (it was a hobby when I was younger) I had been learning solely from books (and performance)for a few years before I even really thought of using the internet to gather mentalism related information, I naively thought that our secrets were in fact precious to us and well kept.... boy was I wrong! I was deeply shocked to find just how much material was available freely. I could only think 'Why would you do this?' (I still can't answer that question) In fact once when doing a search for a title (I can't remember what) google came up with some bloke posting his list of mentalism works somewhere for trading purposes, I kid you not it was more than any one person could read in a lifetime, I contacted this person and asked them what their deal was - They said that they don't perform.. just collect.. I was gobsmacked!

Anyway, that is kind of beside the point. I agree with all of the above, and I have to admit that I found that same attitude when teaching critical thinking at Uni. The students could not wrap their heads around the fact that I could not give them answers, only pose questions to provoke thinking. After all, I was teaching them how to think, so it was the thinking process that I was attempting to get them to engage with and refine. The students were utterly frustrated and were literally demanding the answers from me (usually it was for questions like abortion right or wrong?, death sentence right or wrong?.. that kind of thing)it got to the point that one student even went to my supervisor complaining that he couldn't get things right because I wouldn't tell him what the right answer was!!!. So basically yeah, there is a culture of utter entitlement, where people now expect to be able to find out what they want to know when they want to know it at no effort to themselves and no cost. It is both sad for the here and now and frightening for the future.

I read somewhere recently that succesfull employees these days don't really need to know a lot at all themselves... they just need to know how to find the information... Hi google!
Sean Giles
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Cambridge/ UK
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More than once I've helped people (who requested it) via PM and not even got a thank you reply. Sean, you are not alone brother.
Shrubsole
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Kent, England
2448 Posts

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I find there are two types: those who demand and have no interest whatsoever and just demand to know and those who show a genuine interest in the art.

I have one acquaintance who demands to know just because he sees all magic/mentalism as someone trying to make them look foolish for not knowing. He tries to bore the secret out of you by following you around asking again and again. He has followed me through my magic years and into mentalism. Over all those years, I have never explained a single thing to him so you would think that he would learn he is wasting his time, but no.

I have met others with a genuine interest and instead of demanding the secret to what I am doing, they ask for help and pointers so that they can take up the 'hobby'. I don't mind helping those types at all. Some are naturals at it and some never get that mentalism isn't just a secret move or two.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
jimgerrish
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East Orange, NJ
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Edward Gibbon, author of "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", points out many times about the decline of manners preceding the fall of civilizations. I guess we are really in for it.
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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I give aways dozens of effects each year without attempting to judge the motive of the requester -- but do require a written commitment to provide feedback do that I can refine the effect or develop new ones. I allow the requesting magicians to be my audience.

But ...

to date on 27.4% of those I send effects to have lived up to their commitment. This is worse than bad manners or even a "gimmy" attitude. If your word means nothing, what else are you for?

No JIm, we are already deeply in it. It isn't just magic that is dying -- it is our entire culture.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
nique
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Singapore
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On a similar note, over a year ago I've had an occasion where I received emails from a known name, asking to be sent a routine of mine that I released, saying that he would provide me a review. Having his repute, I of course excitedly sent him the routine.

No responses after that, no replies to my numerous follow up emails, no sharing of what he thought of the routine, nothing.

And yes, I've also had PMs rudely and blatantly demanding for the method to a routine I put up on YouTube; when I declined, I was told I was "acting high and mighty".

~ Nique
"ChairLess - A Chair Prediction"

"Epique - A Mental Epic"

"TAP - The Assignment Prediction"

PM or email me for details:

niquetan@gmail.com

Reviews here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=462773&forum=303&13

https://m.facebook.com/niquetanmindreader/

www.niquetan.com
TonyB2009
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It cuts both ways - the top professionals can be as rude as the newbies. I was once sent a PDF of a routine that sells for a very high price. I contacted the creator and let him know all the details about where the PDF came from then deleted the PDF from my computer. I got a curt, almost rude, acknowledgement from the creator, and no hint of a thanks. It was almost like I was the pirate.

On another occasion I tried to do a workshop with a well respected pro. I was willing to pay quite steep money for the workshop, but he had advertised the wrong date and location on his website. He returned my deposit (at least he did that). When I emailed him to find out when I could do the course again, I was given a very rude brush-off. Needless to say, that man has not got a pound of my money since.

The rudeness permeates all aspects of our society, unfortunately.
TonyB2009
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It cuts both ways - the top professionals can be as rude as the newbies. I was once sent a PDF of a routine that sells for a very high price. I contacted the creator and let him know all the details about where the PDF came from then deleted the PDF from my computer. I got a curt, almost rude, acknowledgement from the creator, and no hint of a thanks. It was almost like I was the pirate.

On another occasion I tried to do a workshop with a well respected pro. I was willing to pay quite steep money for the workshop, but he had advertised the wrong date and location on his website. He returned my deposit (at least he did that). When I emailed him to find out when I could do the course again, I was given a very rude brush-off. Needless to say, that man has not got a pound of my money since.

The rudeness permeates all aspects of our society, unfortunately.
Mind illusionist
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Australia
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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 14:49, mastermindreader wrote:
Sean-

That's one of the reasons I've disabled PMs and only exchange them will people I know and/or trust. I know for a fact that a lot of unethical "trading" takes place via PMs.

And, as I've stated many times, I have little patience for anonymous newcomers who provide little to no information about themselves and yet feel that they are entitled to have anything for the asking.

It gets depressing. I've been asked by many fellow professionals why I continue to participate here. It's because I love the art and have made many good friends on the Café over the years. Besides, I tell them, someone has to at least TRY to fight the trivialization that is rapidly happening to our art.


Well said Bob. I admire your tenacity for the art. Im actually planning a project in the near future, and would greatly appreciate your opinion and advice on magic & mentalism. if I could PM or contact you another way, I would greatly appreciate it!

kindly,
Jordan
Shrubsole
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Kent, England
2448 Posts

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Quote:
On 2013-09-09 02:12, Sean Giles wrote:
More than once I've helped people (who requested it) via PM and not even got a thank you reply.


I PMed you weeks ago as to what was the secret of Bob Cassidy's enormous sex appeal, and you haven't replied yet!

:lol:
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
PhilDean
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I had a cheeky bugger PM me and then try to admonishing for replying - to a PM from my own bloody inbox! Many people on here are strange.
mpicard
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I've been here an hour now and no one has offered to give me the secret to every magic and mentalist effect ever created, I think the members here are so rude and self serving.
DynaMix
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Quote:
On 2013-09-10 22:40, TonyB2009 wrote:
It cuts both ways - the top professionals can be as rude as the newbies.


Thank god for some balance in this thread.
mastermindreader
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V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

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Balance?

How many "top professionals" do you believe send PMs to people demanding information? Why do you think most of them don't even post here any more?
Sean Giles
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Cambridge/ UK
3727 Posts

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Quote:
On 2013-09-11 11:11, Shrubsole wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-09 02:12, Sean Giles wrote:
More than once I've helped people (who requested it) via PM and not even got a thank you reply.


I PMed you weeks ago as to what was the secret of Bob Cassidy's enormous sex appeal, and you haven't replied yet!

:lol:


lol, it's that silky white hair and the husky voice... come on, everyone knows that Smile
mastermindreader
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V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

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Stop revealing my inner secrets. This is a publicly searchable forum you know. Smile
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