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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » C****r T**r. How Is It Credible? How To Make It Credible? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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David Thiel
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Western Canada...where all that oil is
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RO also did a series of CTs to "just passing through the casino" type of audience in his "Without A Net" DVDs -- precisely because people were talking about L&L audiences being so compliant.

He got the same reactions from them that we all get in doing CT's for our audiences...so this isn't a valid point.

With reference to a "newb" figuring out the method for the CT -- in all honesty, I've never seen it that way, and I've performed for many audiences that would LOVE to have pointed out a flaw in the presentation. They don't see a flaw because there isn't one.

A perfectly presented CT is a beautiful thing.

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


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RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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It’s a common question, in every form of magic, from people with little to no performance experience.
Why do a card trick? Why do you have those boxes? Why write something down?
If you are interesting, entertaining and engaging to your audience then why becomes wow!
Ray Bertrand
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British Columbia
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Quote:
On 2013-09-15 14:14, David Thiel wrote:
RO also did a series of CTs to "just passing through the casino" type of audience in his "Without A Net" DVDs -- precisely because people were talking about L&L audiences being so compliant.

He got the same reactions from them that we all get in doing CT's for our audiences...so this isn't a valid point.

With reference to a "newb" figuring out the method for the CT -- in all honesty, I've never seen it that way, and I've performed for many audiences that would LOVE to have pointed out a flaw in the presentation. They don't see a flaw because there isn't one.

A perfectly presented CT is a beautiful thing.

David


I always enjoy your dialogues David. ... "They don't see a flaw because there isn't one." Perfect practice will yield perfect results.

Ray
EnterTRAINment at its best. Keeping the Magic Alive in Northern BC
TonyB2009
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It is all in the framing. One way I frame it is to write my volunteers name on a slip of paper. By writing their name I am making a connection with them. They then write the name of a loved one who has passed away inside, and fold up the sheet. They are making a connection to that person. I have already made a connection to them. So can I make a connection to the dead person? I do a little cold reading, and reveal the name at the end. The paper is torn up because it does not matter. It is only a way of making the connection.

I also do a peek for a PIN number prediction. I ask someone if they know their PIN number, and if they would be comfortable with me trying to read their minds on the subject. They normally giggle. I giggle too, and tell them that if they are giggling, none of us is concentrating. So write the number down and focus on it. I then take the slip of paper and burn it - it was just to focus their minds.
TonyB2009
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It is all in the framing. One way I frame it is to write my volunteers name on a slip of paper. By writing their name I am making a connection with them. They then write the name of a loved one who has passed away inside, and fold up the sheet. They are making a connection to that person. I have already made a connection to them. So can I make a connection to the dead person? I do a little cold reading, and reveal the name at the end. The paper is torn up because it does not matter. It is only a way of making the connection.

I also do a peek for a PIN number prediction. I ask someone if they know their PIN number, and if they would be comfortable with me trying to read their minds on the subject. They normally giggle. I giggle too, and tell them that if they are giggling, none of us is concentrating. So write the number down and focus on it. I then take the slip of paper and burn it - it was just to focus their minds.
Bard
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The problem with the CT and its lack of logic is that a.) it is a technique and not a trick (which so many tend to view it as); b.) most people that use it do not preface things in a manner that makes the destruction of the slip, logical.

Originally the CT was used by Mit-Readers. Client's came in, jot down their question and in getting in tune with the client, the slip would be torn to bits and then sat to flame so that the question was sent to the gods for an answer. The "Ritual" made sense. . . I use the CT in Mr. Cassidy's "Where & When" routine because he sates that "the slip you do not choose will be destroyed". . . this makes the whole thing logical and more of a miracle.

I recall Mr. Cassidy talking about how Dunninger would use the CT and it was brilliant. . . an assistant would ask someone for a question to be written down when Old Joe would come into the room and discover what was up. . . he would get a bit peeved, take the slip and tear it up, tossing the pieces into an ash can stating "NO, It must be real with nothing known in advance". . . voila!

My point being that it's not the writing down of information that's the issue when it comes to the CT, it's justifying the destruction of the slip . . . and this isn't an exclusive issue with the CT, there are other Tear & Peek scenarios like Dance of Shiva, that host this same weakness and thus, the same necessity for justification.

YES. . . some of the old billet Readers did crumble and mutilate the slips when conveying their readings and yes, it is a ploy that can work for some. . . not everyone has what it takes to pull of the intensity this sort of persona requires and most that attempt it, look like the went to the William Shatner school of acting rather than studying the greats of theater.

Ninety percent of the "approaches" to the CT come from magician's thinking, NOT the auspices of mentalism. The result being a great deal of presentation that has ruined the method. . . I've actually sat in audiences and heard laymen laugh at the performer using said method, because it's so well known. . . used by bartenders, for an example, as part of a classic bar bet and of course, used by magicians when table hopping . . . most recently due to the fact that Mentalism is commercially popular and they want to be in on the ride without putting in the work or giving up their tricks. . . but that's another issue, isn't it?
bdekolta
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Just a small correction. Dance of Shiva is not a tear. The audience folds the card and it is never unfolded or torn before you reveal the information. I have used it for years.
John C
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I THINK therefore I wrote
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Quote:
On 2013-09-14 16:28, stubbs360 wrote:
(Sorry for the spelling, I'm writing from a tablet)
Proffesionals can often justify it by acting skills alone but if you want a good ct justification that I posted a very good one in inner thoughts that perfectly justifies writting it down (actually makes them want to write it themselfs) altough it doesn't justify tearing it up, maybe I'll repost it here later as of now just say what kind of mentalist you are (psychological or mystical) becouse the second one isnway easier to jusify.
Other thing that other will probably tell you to do is tol ignore the billet and they will to, I think that's an awful advice for someone he doesn't have enough experience


Btw, once again sorry for the spelling, maybe I'll try to help out some more later. Now I'm going to sleep Smile


In defense of tablets , they don't do the actual spelling. Humans still are responsible for that. There's a good keyboard for your tablet called Kii. It monitors your spelling rather well.
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Amirá
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MentalismCenter.com
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And Steven? Did you use a CT with all this guidance that you received?


Let us know. I use te*rs as an optional technique daily. Its all in your framing and unique coherence as a performer.


Best
Pablo
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Bard
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Quote:
On 2013-09-19 20:01, bdekolta wrote:
Just a small correction. Dance of Shiva is not a tear. The audience folds the card and it is never unfolded or torn before you reveal the information. I have used it for years.


Sure. . .but you must tear it in order to get the peek e.g. it is a Tear just as all the variations to the CT are tears.
bdekolta
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Does the audience see a tear or the paper opened? No. In that way it is very different to the audience.
Mr Timothy Gray
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Has anyone made an attempt to have this conversation moved downstairs?

This is just getting ridiculous.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray

Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986
Bard
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Quote:
On 2013-09-22 12:14, bdekolta wrote:
Does the audience see a tear or the paper opened? No. In that way it is very different to the audience.


Actually, if you do the clean-up as Docc suggests, the audience will see you tear the thing up. . . but I'm not going to argue with you, nor am I the only person that classifies Shiva as a tear & peek method.

As to the CT, which is the topic, I've said my piece.
tommi
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While handing them the billet: You have one thing in mind, please write it down and concentrate on it really hard. Look at what you wrote for few seconds, because, in a moment, we are going to destroy that and only use your mind, your imagination. I believe you are the kind of a person who has more of a photographic memory, so by writing it down, I think it is easier for you to concentrate on your thoughts later, am I right?

But most times, I say nothing and just do it Smile

btw, I speak Finnish as a mother language, so the description above could sound weird to English speaking readers here..

tommi
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