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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
There are zillions of magic tricks out there. Some play big and are technically easy to do, are self-working. And some play big and are technically difficult to do, require advanced sleight of hand. If done properly, there is no way that a lay audience can determine whether the magic trick is done with advanced sleight of hand or is self-working. (To the lay audience, they both require advanced sleight-of-hand.)
Given all of this, what is the advantage of learning sleight-of-hand, when one can learn magic tricks that are self-working? |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
There's some analysis in the genii article.
Between luggage, setup and fault failure considerations it seems economical in my life to use gaffs/apparatus parsimoniously.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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David Fillary Special user 662 Posts |
A lot of gaffs still require sleight of hand. Roth's coins across uses a gaff, but you need a good CP and spider vanish. I don't use a [ as I carry my half dollars loose in my back pocket.
I would think the main advantage of sleight of hand is adaptability. If you lose your gaff coins, you're screwed, whereas if you have the sleight of hand, you can't lose that! Also, the principles I've learnt from sleight of hand coin magic have improved my other areas in magic, so you get much more for your effort. |
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CarpetShark Special user 576 Posts |
I would think the number of self-working routines be rather small when compared to SoH. There is also a certain level of self-confidence and fulfillment not possible with what I like to call 'toy magic'. Just my feelings on the subject...
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VernonOnCoins Inner circle NYC 1978 Posts |
I guess having the ability to perform something interesting with ordinary objects.
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
It Nice to have something to fall Back on! I was doing A stand-up show some time back and forgot to pack My 3 T. gaff! To do my no touch 3 coins to glass! So I had to do the old S Of H. Handleing! It have looked a little more move-e but It worked fine! I always Say to learn Your Sleight of Hand first So you know to get out of Stuff if any thing goes wrong! And then Learn how to use a gaff RIGHT!!! And no! gaffs used Right( And at the right Time) Are not self working No matter what the dealers SAY !!!
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
If you consider Al Schneider's distinction between Clown, Theater and Virtual magic, the use of Sleights allow the performer to decide which approach to use. The use of a gimmick or "self-working" often restricts the choice to one or the other -- often Theater Magic. The key is how the spectator "rewinds" during the reconstruction. Self-working effects tend to control the "moment of magic" in an artificial way -- while expertise in a variety of Sleights puts the performer in control. This is especially important in venues where some spectators may have seen an effect before. A knowledge of Sleights can allow you to change the presentation "on the fly." Knowing only one Sleight risks making it "self-working."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Lots of good responses here. To me, simply, learning SOH gives you an inate weapon in coin magic, as you can always make fire with whatever's there. Simply relying on a gaff, well, when the gaff runs out or you don't happen to have it, then there isn't much of any fire to be had.
Now, it's important to realize also that SOH can enhance the use of gaffed coins, and most good users use them just that way to produce even greater magic at times. But most good users are good SOH guys to begin with and use that ability to do even more with the secret help the tricky coins provide. Also, you never get bored with good SOH, but a gaffed set can get old real fast as usually they are meant to do one thing. Like S&S, very nice little trick but that's all it does. Take the time to learn the SOH and you can command coins to do what you want them to do, instead of so simply relying upon what they can (in specific ways) do for you.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
My approach is to use both, depending on:
1. routine 2. size of audience 3. stand versus sit 4. angles 5. my mood 6. conditions of my hands 7. knowledge base of my audience 8. 9.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
This is a really good thread here. There are lots of routines, say in Kaufman's Coinmagic, where you can use a gaff and switch it to end clean, but without the soh you wouldn't be able to do that. Plus with soh you open yourself up to so much more magic.
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Kaufman's book was my second big investment in coin stuff.
Been a lot more reading since then, but it is great book to get back to reading. Of course I have also made jaws dropped in the "old days" with a coin, a paper clip and a rubber band. so as someone once said... effect, effect, effect. Harris still trying to be an effective magician.....
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Kaufman's book was my second big investment in coin stuff.
Been a lot more reading since then, but it is great book to get back to reading. Of course I have also made jaws dropped in the "old days" with a coin, a paper clip and a rubber band. so as someone once said... effect, effect, effect. Harris still trying to be an effective magician.....
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Sleight of hand allows you do anything you want. With gimmicked coins you are limited by the property of the coin. Anyone can buy a gimmick and perform a trick. Adding sleight of hand will allow you to perform that same effect in a cleaner fashion. And last, are you the magician or are your props the magician? Things to consider.
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
When I was a kid, without the slightest mentor in all this stuff, though I had Bobo's, you tend to go for the tricky coins in the showcase at magic shops over all the reading to effectively learn SOH. The gaffed coins in Tannen's showcases in downtown, NYC always drew me to them like a magnet. I would save like crazy just to ever-so-often be able to get some of the cheaper coin tricks there. Couldn't afford the better stuff and wouldn't be able to for some time, but I loved just going there and lookin'.
I read through Bobo's a bit back then but just didn't catch on well enough to stick to it. At that time it was like trying to get through War & Peace. Or like a kid always selecting heat & eat, Eggo Waffles over ever pulling out the old waffle iron. But eventually (a long time afterwards really) I began to better settle in with the book and learn the moves. I really wish I had caught on better from the very beginning, but at that time it was like having to clean your room type stuff. Anyway, so glad I stuck with it long enough to learn the better mechanics to make all this stuff happen as Doc alludes to here. It truly is required learning if you want to do this stuff the very best you can. The gaffed stuff is fun, and still after all these years very attractive, but with SOH you can make them even better, you can make yourself better as well.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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gregg webb Inner circle 1564 Posts |
Not many become true artists with sleight-of-hand. Those that are don't really need gaffs, but the area that Dr. Rubinstein mentioned of combining sleight-of-hand with an occasional gaff is really interesting. But there are ways to routine gaffs in and out of play that don't take sleight-of-hand but 'only' routine construction and traffic control with your pockets. A mixture of these styles is good. Also consider that often the gaffed method of a trick takes as much work to get it right than if you had learned the sleight method. Best wish, Gregg Webb
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Things like the Tenkai Pennies, Schneider's Matrix, the Han Ping Chien Coin Trick or the Magical Filtration of Coins (Five Franc Pieces if you recall the book ) are fine without gaffs.
Then again if you are carrying around the coins as props you may as well perform the most sure-fire and magical looking routines possible so please do bring out Bob Swadling's Double Deception and go for the gusto! :)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Once the gimmick breaks you are done...... io learne3d this as a youngster.
SOH is by far the best way to go but, combining a gimick with SOH is the best of both worlds |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Once the gimmick breaks you are done...... io learne3d this as a youngster.
SOH is by far the best way to go but, combining a gimick with SOH is the best of both worlds |
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jcrabtree2007 Special user 627 Posts |
More weapons in the arsenal.
And you may be somewhere without your gaffs, but there are always coins avail. The more SOH you do, the easier all magic is including gaffs. I carry my coins on me at all times- a few kennedy halves, maybe an english penny. If I lose them, I'm out a buck or two. What is I lose my Morgan OXF. Ouch!! |
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Seems like you are limiting yourself by creating a false dichotomy.
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