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MichaelCGM
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Speaking of "fantastic" examples, this is another fantastic example of jumping on someone who asked a simple question and beating him down as much as possible - even after he recognizes the error he made and asked, politely to drop the subject. Anyone else want to give him a kick or two before tossing him to the curb? For those of us at the Café who believe in the credo, "Magicians helping Magicians," please accept my apology for how you've been treated JBiesecker. PM or contact me anytime, if I can be of ANY assistance.
Magically Yours,

Magical Michael

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twistedace
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Nearly every mental effect is a "trick". It involves some secret method known to only the performer and not the audience. Pretending to predict the future is a fine way of explaining what he wants to do. There is nobody here who does otherwise. Nobody predicts the future for real.

I do believe 13 Steps is great, but it may not contain the effects people are looking for. It's like only referring people to Bobo when there have been many updated, streamlined, and much better coin routines created. Sure, the original has basics and is good in its own right, but it can't compare in many ways to the new ideas creators put out FOR performers to buy.
Chaz93
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Quote:
On 2013-09-28 10:39, Bard wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-28 09:44, innercirclewannabe wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-26 18:50, Chaz93 wrote:
Forget spending a ton of money on a toy. Get the basic books, learn mentalism, and do it right. Corinda offers several answers to this question.

Gotta walk before you learn to run. Respect the art, and do things right.


Exactly.


Actually NO. . . as I said previously, we are looking at a Magician that wants a bit of hard hitting Mental Magic in his show, NOT to become a full time Mentalist . . . and frankly, there are tons of people that have read Corinda & Annemann who are terrible as showmen and unable to pull off proper billet or swami work let alone something as bold as the OP is asking for.

Sure, by being familiar with the two bible's of Mentalism the OP will have a better sense of resource but it is superfluous material, Ted Lesley's PARAMIRACLES would be more practical given his interest.

I spent years doing traditional stage magic in which I would toss in bits of Mental Magic with the understanding that this is all it was. In time I started breaking my show in half so that the second half dealt more with Mentalism, the field I was being pulled toward but needed to get my footing in first. Such seems to be the case with our OP; he only wants a little something to use as a highlight akin to how Copperfield used Dream Vision and his Graffiti Wall predictions.

What he needs to do right now is decide a theme around such a featured piece and what available material seems to fit that niche. He needs something (from the sound of things) that is easy to transport, requires little to no additional assistance (he can do most of the work needed) and which of course, plays big. To my mind this means some version of Confabulation, a Chair Prediction or some form of Headline Prediction . . . maybe even a book test type scenario but it would have to be very special and almost tailored to his needs.

Doing things the "right way" really depends on one's actual needs in the moment.


After all this talk of exposure you'd think people would learn to mark out letters in certain words, like sw**** for instance.
Mindpro
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Not here, they either just don't get it or just don't care
Mindpro
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Quote:
On 2013-09-28 16:00, MichaelCGM wrote:
Speaking of "fantastic" examples, this is another fantastic example of jumping on someone who asked a simple question and beating him down as much as possible - even after he recognizes the error he made and asked, politely to drop the subject. Anyone else want to give him a kick or two before tossing him to the curb? For those of us at the Café who believe in the credo, "Magicians helping Magicians," please accept my apology for how you've been treated JBiesecker. PM or contact me anytime, if I can be of ANY assistance.


Thanks for the misperception MichaelCGM. Nobody jumped on anyone. They offered friendly sound advice to help him to understand and fit in in this forum. When he failed to understand after several attempts by several members it turned to frustration. There is a huge difference. No one beat anyone down. No one "kicked him to the curb", they offered him sound advice, repeatedly. Sorry you can't seem to understand this and the differences. BTW he was PM'd and still was having difficulty understanding. So PM Michael, get an even greater misunderstanding of this forum and the members here...that will really help him to understand.

Also he can ask that this be dropped, but unfortunately this thread doesn't just involve him and his choice. Other's have taken their time and effort and vested it in posting here, helping him and participating in this thread. They have every right to continue if the choose.
MichaelCGM
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Quote:
On 2013-09-28 21:03, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-28 16:00, MichaelCGM wrote:
Speaking of "fantastic" examples, this is another fantastic example of jumping on someone who asked a simple question and beating him down as much as possible - even after he recognizes the error he made and asked, politely to drop the subject. Anyone else want to give him a kick or two before tossing him to the curb? For those of us at the Café who believe in the credo, "Magicians helping Magicians," please accept my apology for how you've been treated JBiesecker. PM or contact me anytime, if I can be of ANY assistance.


Thanks for the misperception MichaelCGM. Nobody jumped on anyone. They offered friendly sound advice to help him to understand and fit in in this forum. When he failed to understand after several attempts by several members it turned to frustration. There is a huge difference. No one beat anyone down. No one "kicked him to the curb", they offered him sound advice, repeatedly. Sorry you can't seem to understand this and the differences. BTW he was PM'd and still was having difficulty understanding. So PM Michael, get an even greater misunderstanding of this forum and the members here...that will really help him to understand.

Also he can ask that this be dropped, but unfortunately this thread doesn't just involve him and his choice. Other's have taken their time and effort and vested it in posting here, helping him and participating in this thread. They have every right to continue if the choose.
Now, how on earth did I know for certain that you wouldn't agree with my perspective of what happened, Mindpro? Hmmmm... must be mentalism.
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Magical Michael

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Chaz93
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Mindpro is spot on. No one has been overtly harsh in this thread. Rather, people have chimed in to offer help. Good suggestions were made, not so good suggestions were made, and we attempted to educate people on the etiquette of this particular forum. I know I personally sent a PM to help clear up my point of view, and wouldn't be surprised if others had as well. I simply don't see the "jumping on someone" Michael references.
WitchesHat
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Quote:
On 2013-09-28 12:33, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-28 12:01, JBiesecker wrote:
I need a trick where I pretend to predict the future


This is exactly the problem right here.

This is also a fantastic example of the previous threads here and downstairs about the differences between magicians and mentalists, thinking like a magician, and the "unable to get it" aspects of magicians.

It was gone over repeatedly yet the examples given were general examples in those threads. Here is an exact real actual example. This is not meant as a slam to the OP as he said after Tony's post (which actually just restated what five of us spent hours already trying to explain) that he understood. But he reality is, like this person, magician's do not understand mentalism and mentalism's mentalities. This is why mentalism is not just a branch of magic like coins, cards, doves, etc.

Go back through the OPs posts and you will see the struggle he's having with trying to comprehend this here, even after it was presented to him (several times by several members. I'm still not convinced it is truly understood as rather just being sorry he asked in the first place.

This thread offers some great insight, perspective and info...to those that truly want to put in the effort to understand the differences and mentalities between magicians and mentalists. We couldn't have asked for a better, more clearly defined example.

It was also (whether he realizes it or not) very helpful to the OP. It explain what he was asking, what he had done inappropriately within this forum and the community AND WHY, and directed him to a proper magic forum here at the Café where his questions and approach might be a better fit for the "tricks" he was seeking, where the information and exposure was more common and acceptable, and in a much less popular and trendy searchable forum.

To me, this was mentalists helping magicians.




I decided to avoid this place for awhile as I was obviously aggravating people and I wanted to give them a break, however you mention me and I appear, I'm like Voldemort.

As far as I can see the highest view count of a thread in this section has been the pinned one at the top, reaching over 41,000 views. Lets say for the sake of argument, that all of those hits are different people rather that repeat views (even though we know they're not.) Let's also say that all of these 41 thousand people only live in America, which is where I'm guessing most of you are from, (even though we know they're not and we're not.)
**** it lets say it's all from New York.

So we all live in New York and each of those 41 thousand people are laymen from New York looking for secrets. If that was the case (which it isn't, you know it isn't) then be afraid because roughly 0.005125% of the population of New York (rounded down to 8 million) have discovered all your precious secrets (assuming your secrets can be brought in a store).

I can not adequately express the extent of how little the world cares about our secrets.

Also I find it funny that in my thread a lot of people !@#$%ed at me for 'making a second thread that's already being talked about upstairs', whereas here everyone's saying 'Aggh why can't you bring this downstairs? Everyone will see! Everyone will see the links to shops where we buy all our acts apparently!'

Finally I don't ever see how you'll stop magicians (both hobbyist and professional) posting questions on a magic forum.
twistedace
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WitchesHat nailed it. The majority of laymen are not looking for secrets. The people asking questions are hobbyists or performers looking to learn something. It seems as if they ask for resources for specific effects - NOT methods but resources- they are ganged up on and burned at the stake. I see exposure as giving away exact methods, not letting others interested in the art- mentalism or magic- know about resources. After all if the resources are available then the creators obviously put it out there for two reasons- to have others learn and to make money. I guarantee that the percentage of people out there googling your effects after a performance are slim to none and ranging closer to the none side. They want to be entertained and don't care about methods especially if we're form convincingly.
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I appreciate MichaelCGM's first reply to the OPs backing out of this "conversation" in that it is on mark; a bunch of arrogant schmucks pounced on someone asking an innocent question. And then you go after me for not sensory the word S*W*A*M*I. . . in that it really doesn't matter and you'd be hard pressed to find someone more passionate and protective of Mentalism than me . . . as an example, I don't agree with Twistdance's idea that it's all "tricks" (though I'm nit picking here, I know what he was getting to).

The fact is, there is a difference between Mentalism and Mental Magic and this whole thread could have been shortened and sweetened had the "Mentalists" recognized that distinction and just gave the OP some appropriate choices to go with . . .which NONE OF YOU DID! It's almost as if you wanted to be school yard bullies.

Just as I was starting to believe the Café had changed from what it was, I see this level of self-importance and immaturity oozing back from the cracks. . . you guys, especially "Mindpro" should be ashamed of yourselves. . . these actions are far from "professional".

I have contacted the OP and assured him that we're not all obnoxious jerks and if he wished, I WILL HELP HIM find something suitable. NOTE I did not say that I'd share our inner-most secrets (and BTW. . . I probably know more of those than the bulk of those that were being jerks), I said that I would help the guy in that I do know the difference between Mental Magic & Mentalism in that I've not only performed both over the years, I've literally written books on the subject.

I really hope this situation was an exception and not the rule. . . I was wanting to talk to the management about a few things and actually pay some compliments for a change.
Mindpro
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It seems obvious that he last two posters are not out there performing mentalism, magic perhaps, but not mentalism or your armchair theories would quickly be proven wrong. As someone who is out there performing typically five - nine shows per week I can tell you your sentiments are incorrect.

At nearly every performance following the show when I meet the audience, pose for photos, sell merchandise, etc. I constantly hear the many things we discuss and are so concerned about. Their confusion about what is real mentalism and what is magic or a trick, what they've seen on exposure shows, youtube or from the new wave of exposure-type of live performances, etc.

Your theory is correct perhaps on paper and in generalizations. Many of those people mass figured in the above post may never come to a mentalism performance and may care less. But those that would be willing to pay to attend a mentalist's show have a great interest, knowledge and concern. As any true professional entertainer will tel you , these are the people that matter most, as they are the ones who pay your bills and allow you to make your living.

Your generalization mentalities are exactly what's happened to magic over the years. Most people now know how the sawed in a half woman in a box, or swords though a cabinet are done. They are aware of false bottoms, trick doors, etc. And because of this look at what has happened to magic. Magic's forefather's are rolling around in their graves as their generations-long secrets are now available for free to anyone who knows how to use Google.

You're kidding yourself if you think this doesn't come into play with each and every performance of everyone in this profession that makes their living performing this art. This is my opinion why the current trend is so strong of magician's wanting to come into mentalism, as it the last unexposed front that audiences still want to accept and believe in.

Opinions from those that are not performing mentalism regularly and consistently is only the incomplete theories from those on the sidelines or perhaps kiddie pool. This is much different that those full-time professionals that treat this as a respected industry, with trade tools, secrets and operational procedure that need to be protected. Again it also starts with and comes down to understanding the differences and mentalities between magic and mentalism as two different art forms. I'm sorry you guys can't see the real bigger picture.
twistedace
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Interesting points, Mindpro. If someone is actively seeking advice on performing mentalism, or specific routines from mentalism, what would be the best way to ask? I'm not being sarcastic, just curious.

I know that personally, I like to choose specific effects to learn then learn the subtleties and mechanics that are associated with it. I can then learn how to apply those ideas other effects. It's similar to music for me. You can learn some scales and chords in the beginning, but learning is quicker when they are applied to songs of high interest. I started playing guitar by teaching myself. I started with songs of high interest and it catapulted me.
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On 2013-09-29 10:56, Mindpro wrote:
It seems obvious that he last two posters are not out there performing mentalism, magic perhaps, but not mentalism or your armchair theories would quickly be proven wrong. As someone who is out there performing typically five - nine shows per week I can tell you your sentiments are incorrect.

At nearly every performance following the show when I meet the audience, pose for photos, sell merchandise, etc. I constantly hear the many things we discuss and are so concerned about. Their confusion about what is real mentalism and what is magic or a trick, what they've seen on exposure shows, youtube or from the new wave of exposure-type of live performances, etc.

Your theory is correct perhaps on paper and in generalizations. Many of those people mass figured in the above post may never come to a mentalism performance and may care less. But those that would be willing to pay to attend a mentalist's show have a great interest, knowledge and concern. As any true professional entertainer will tel you , these are the people that matter most, as they are the ones who pay your bills and allow you to make your living.


That's a fair point, undoubtedly a large percentage of the people searching this forum who aren't performers / hobbyists will be someone who saw someones performance and will want to know how it's done, however...

Alright I've tried to write this without sounding rude, but I don't think I can, so firstly let me say, I honestly believe you are a competent, successful performer both financially and theatrically. I also agree you are a more experienced, better mentalist than I am. I am not being sarcastic.

A good mentalism effect is more than the techniques or 'tricks' that go into it, whether it's swamis, b****t's, cold reading, hypnosis whatever. So chances are good you have nothing to worry about because nobody can do exactly what you do. I assume what you perform doesn't even point to the method, so someone could read the 'secret' to how you do something and not realized they've seen it. A good example of this is by that new member asking about Derren Browns 'throat reading'.

No matter how well you perform there will be doubters who will try to rationalize or explain what you did, often their explanation is more outlandish than the actual method. When I do 'mentalism' I claim supernatural powers and I've had people explain it as 'Derren Brown like psychology', 'cold reading' or 'suggestion', which were incorrect methods. So if I had framed it as psychological my 'doubters' may have been my 'believers'.

Does that make sense? An 'armature' or 'hobbyist' is safe because their audience is more limited, and the statistics are good that they won't have seen this place. A 'professional' or 'expert' is safe because their presentation will hide the technique too well, they won't be reading bits of paper or reading lips / responses or making educated guesses. They will be reading minds.

I'm not saying this in a 'You obviously don't perform enough otherwise you'd know this' way. I'm saying your too close to see it. It's like when you watch a mentalist performance and the method seems obvious to you, yet it fools people. It's obvious to you because you know it. So on here you see methods and phrases used that are meaningless to the people looking for the secret, because they don't know what they're looking for, but they jump out at you, because you know that's the actual secret.

To put it another way, imagine if someone who has never read any book on magic or mentalism read every post in the mentalist section, how much would they actually know? Could they do a show? Could they dissect and understand a good mentalists show?
Mindpro
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I agree with you and like your guitar playing analogy. If someone is serious about leaning something they should first and foremost understand the educational process. Learn what mentalism is, not what they interpret it to be. To me personally, this begins with respect an an appreciation of the subject, it's history and those that have come before them. Before jumping into anything (mentalism or otherwise) there should be a period of personal research, learning and understanding. Some think that asking questions here on the Café is their due diligence, that's not what I'm talking about.

Like any profession, art or even hobby, there are a set of things that should be acknowledged, accepted and understood. There are mentalities to mentalism which are the basis for the foundation of mentalism. This then affects one's approach, understanding, creation and ultimately performance of mentalism. Skipping this crucial step creates an inappropriate or weak foundation from which everything from that point becomes weak or shaky. Soooo many want to brush over this ever-so-important aspect to mentalism, wanting just to get to the good stuff (secrets, effects, methods, etc.). By skipping this important aspect of understanding mentalism on it's foundational level, all of their expedited efforts and attempts come from a general, laymens or magician's perspective and foundation, which is where things start to go south.

There are some principles to mentalism that need to be understood. Truly understood. Not just heard, read, or known, but understood fro their roots (Bob Cassidy has repeated expressed these so eloquently). They are different than magic. Typically magician's coming to mentalism struggle with this from it's very beginning foundational point. Typically disagreeing with some or most of these principles, mostly due in part to (as discussed here, explained and detailed hundreds of times) to their magician's way of thinking and mentalities.

I know in another post you are asking how members here came to mentalism. Many come from magic and I think while there are some similarities, it impairs many of these magicians because they struggle to understand then ultimately accept the foundational or principle differences. Their struggle turns into a battle with those that have achieved this understanding and progressed to an advanced level based on the foundation and application of these principles. It's like they don't want to let go of there magical ambilical cord. Then because they don't, can't or won't understand it, struggle and chastise those that do and have (then for some reason still hang out in the mentalist area of this board, which I'll never understand. If I didn't agree with a group of people and weren't comprehending them, I certainly wouldn't hang around).

So my advice is to approach mentalism open-minded, sincerely understanding, accepting and executing the differences (and why) and foundational principles of mentalism. Not doing so limits and prevents them before they ever even start. Understand the mentalities of mentalism. Listen more than talk. There are many here at the Café that are more than willing to share, offer great assistance and advice and assist those that "get it" or are making a sincere attempt to in their progress. At the same time they typically don't want to do this and put in the effort for someone not comprehending our art, are resistant and argumentative, or simply unwilling to even try to understand the differences and principles (this is where the always popular "elitist" cop-out and justification typically comes in).

I think one of the problems is two types of people have interests in mentalism - those coming from magic and those of us that came here through other mental and mind abilities, such as hypnosis, psychology, memory work, etc. This is extremely hard for magician's to comprehend since they come from magic and only see mentalism as a branch of magic with mental-themed tricks. There is a huge difference. This is also where the difference between mental magic and mentalism comes in. Again, there are differences. For years I've done a full 75-90 minute act using nothing related to magic or tricks. Influence, memory feats and demonstrations, intuition, thought reading, Q&A and readings all can be done without anything related to magic. Again, hard to understand for those who rely on tricks, props, gimmicks and moves, deceptions, etc.

To be honest with you I don't truly believe that many here that come to the Penny forum thinking they want to get into mentalism really do. They like the theme and trend and different level of apparent acceptance. There is a process, and education, and level of discipline and commitment required for mentalism that many simply are not willing to commit to and spend the time to learn. It is a process, much which can not be rushed or expedited. There are many different levels. Some spend years or decades and are still learning and have not mastered these. It is all encompassing and I feel you must have a true passion for mentalism to truly get it and be able to commit to the required levels.

Now I understand that most magician's here will be jumping all over this and again, I don't care or take offense to it because as most that do understand mentalism and this process know, they simply aren't comprehending so defensiveness is their instant and immediate reaction (again, not good for mentalism). Not meant as a dig, but as a regularly reoccurring fact and observation here.

The amazing thing is that once you understand these foundational principles, the learning becomes fun, fascinating and often to the point of all consuming and "I-can't-get-enough-of this-stuff". Once this is in place things begin to happen more quickly and on a much deeper level. It's hard to explain, but those that have experienced will tell you how again it is so much more and different than magic. I do believe though it's extremely hard to try to learn mentalism while still doing, holding on to or prioritizing their magic. I also think this is why many after finally getting into the depths of mentalism, never return to magic.

To answer your above posed question - " If someone is actively seeking advice on performing mentalism, or specific routines from mentalism..."

You don't just perform mentalism, you study mentalism. If you are seeking advice on a specific routine you are simply wanting to do a mental magic trick. This is not the same as performing mentalism. My point is there is a differnce between just having an interest in performing a mental effect and wanting to truly learn mentalism.

It would be much better here if these magician's would simply just come on here and post - "I am a magician interested in adding a mental effect to my magic performance. I have no interest and desire to want to learn mentalism, just seeking a mental magic trick..."

The responses would be completely different that those than regulary come in here, think they are peers to those that have committed, studied, perform and understand the differences between the two, and view this as simply someone who is not regular here, popping into to learn some methods and secrets never to be heard from again. It happens daily around here.

My last point is this. In any profession those that do this professionally for a living are much more committed, guarded, proud and protective of their craft or industry. They do whatever they can to prevent trivialization, gross misunderstanding and any attempts to cheapen it. Their have a pride and respect. It becomes very off-putting when others think they are somehow on the same level and entitled to trade resources, secrets and proceedings simply for the asking or without effort or commitment. I think this is another reason for any of the misunderstandings here. There are different levels - the professionals, the semi-professionals, the amateurs the hobbyists and the theorists that have never performed or attempted to perform mentalism. The results are mentalities, beliefs, passions, and respect (or lack thereof) that underly many of the postings and perceptions here.
Chaz93
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On 2013-09-29 10:42, Bard wrote:
I appreciate MichaelCGM's first reply to the OPs backing out of this "conversation" in that it is on mark; a bunch of arrogant schmucks pounced on someone asking an innocent question. And then you go after me for not sensory the word S*W*A*M*I. . . in that it really doesn't matter and you'd be hard pressed to find someone more passionate and protective of Mentalism than me . . . as an example, I don't agree with Twistdance's idea that it's all "tricks" (though I'm nit picking here, I know what he was getting to).

The fact is, there is a difference between Mentalism and Mental Magic and this whole thread could have been shortened and sweetened had the "Mentalists" recognized that distinction and just gave the OP some appropriate choices to go with . . .which NONE OF YOU DID! It's almost as if you wanted to be school yard bullies.

Just as I was starting to believe the Café had changed from what it was, I see this level of self-importance and immaturity oozing back from the cracks. . . you guys, especially "Mindpro" should be ashamed of yourselves. . . these actions are far from "professional".

I have contacted the OP and assured him that we're not all obnoxious jerks and if he wished, I WILL HELP HIM find something suitable. NOTE I did not say that I'd share our inner-most secrets (and BTW. . . I probably know more of those than the bulk of those that were being jerks), I said that I would help the guy in that I do know the difference between Mental Magic & Mentalism in that I've not only performed both over the years, I've literally written books on the subject.

I really hope this situation was an exception and not the rule. . . I was wanting to talk to the management about a few things and actually pay some compliments for a change.


First off regarding the S*****, you should know better is all. If you've been around the forum for any length of time you will see that is common and an agreed upon method of helping to hide the methods. If you were to do a google search with that and one other word you will find at least 5 hits to what it is, where to buy it, and probably even a youtube video on how to use it. That's the world we live in today. It may not be a serious thing to you, but I make my living off performing and would rather not have some smart ass kid telling everyone how it's done. It happens.

Secondly, I'm sorry if you think I was jumping on you. That's not the case. Just pointing out what you're doing wrong in the spirit of helping you to not make the same mistakes further down the line.

As far as asking for tricks and getting them... well, this is a mentalism forum. I expect people here to be familiar with mentalism, or at least interested in becoming familiar with it. That was why my first post to the OP was asking which books he'd read and recommending some reading to start with. Reading that would have also answered OPs question and given him plenty of food for thought to come up with a presentation that would work, if he would do it right and start at the beginning. It would also potentially save thousands of dollars and possibly bring someone else into this art form, more so than just buying a trick would do. I never intended on being insulting, and don't feel like I was at all.

This particular forum has been bad about exposure and just giving away secrets to anyone who asks for them. I'm not fond of that. I'm all for helping people out, but I don't think helping always equates to spoon feeding secrets to people who have no interest in learning the art. I wouldn't walk into a magic club with no knowledge of card sleights and expect to to master sawing a woman in half. It's rude, it pays no respect to the magic community, and it's presumptuous. I didn't mention that though. I offered resources, told the guy to save his money, and attempted to help clear up where the problems were coming from.

Just like I am trying to do with convincing you that blocking out letters is a good thing. You can be offended all you want, you can feel like people are jumping on you just to jump on the new guy. That's not the case from my point of view though.
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Mindpro,

All good points. Thank you for clarifying. I was in no way trying to trivialize. I started getting interested in mentalism two years ago, have been working on 13 Steps, and various other sources. I guess the "where can I find" questions could go to inner thoughts and be answered through PM if appropriate.
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On 2013-09-29 10:42, Bard wrote:
Just as I was starting to believe the Café had changed from what it was, I see this level of self-importance and immaturity oozing back from the cracks. . .


This is a curious statement from someone who (apparently) joined the Café only three weeks ago.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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I wholeheartedly agree with Mindpro and appreciate his efforts.
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As one of those that "Mindpro" was "Attacking" . . . if you only knew who you were talking to in that statement. . . I have roughly a dozen books in print on Mentalism and first started performing in the early 80s. . . I'm one of the sticklers when it comes to making Mentalism feel and look real vs. like some corny trick and I know from direct experience what the realities are and aren't.

I'm accused of being an armchair expert because I am an expert and that goes well beyond theory. I'm not certain who you are, don't really care so much in that, that is not why I've dropped in. I came here to see how much the Café has or hasn't changed and to be honest, I am impressed with what I see and more importantly, what I'm not seeing.

As to the issue of not calling a duck a duck. . . I think that has far more to do with our belief that we are fooling folks when we aren't; they can probably figure out what we're talking about. Then too, such obfuscating can create issues for our younger, less knowledgeable members. Based on this argument we should never refer to any effect by name because one can readily find them on line. . . which is an exaggeration; trust me, I've tried tracking down more than a sales blurb on things . . . last night I was trying to find out more about Hilford's "Wizard's Manual" and all that could be found was his ad, nothing other.

As I said, I've been around this stuff for nearly 50 years now, I think I understand etiquette and such, including how to keep secrets.

I just wanted to clear things up where assumptions about me have been made. . . outside of that, I don't care to turn this into an issue or tit for tat game, so let's drop it.
WitchesHat
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I'm a total armchair expert. You show me any armchair and I can tell you the date and location it was made. I can perfectly recreate any armchair from description alone. I travel around in my own specially designed flying armchair. I'm very confused about all those who look down on us armchair experts, would you rather live in a world where all you have to sit on are one of those ****ty uncomfortable plastic stools? Think how much happier you'll be sitting in an expensive leather armchair, and maybe you'll learn to appreciate us more.
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