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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » New Report on Global Warming » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (153 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Hermit
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Quote:
On Jan 26, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
Tommy, should there be no limits to growth in your opinion?

From your own article:

"In 2014, The Guardian published an article about a new Graham Turner review - 40 years later of "The Limits to Growth" according to which the actual data and the 1972 forecasts still match."


First, who gets to set the limits?

In related news, although you will discount the source, Rush Limbaughs Al Gore Armeggedon Clock is about to run out. It was started when Al Gore said we had 10 years to stop the earth from cooking and killing us all. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2006/0......th_cooks

Let's face it almost all the predictions made 10 years ago were wrong - temps, hurricanes, so forth. We have had very few years that outpaced the past records year to year. Now you want to take the same info from the same people and project forward 10 -100 years. Good luck with that.
NYCTwister
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Aren't you people tired of the googling war?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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Is the transcript of Carl Sagan's last interview with Charlie Rose available online?

Re: History lessons
The next charlatan?
The bamboozled are acting entitled these days.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Slim King
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Quote:
On Jan 26, 2016, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 26, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
Tommy, should there be no limits to growth in your opinion?

From your own article:

"In 2014, The Guardian published an article about a new Graham Turner review - 40 years later of "The Limits to Growth" according to which the actual data and the 1972 forecasts still match."


First, who gets to set the limits?

In related news, although you will discount the source, Rush Limbaughs Al Gore Armeggedon Clock is about to run out. It was started when Al Gore said we had 10 years to stop the earth from cooking and killing us all. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2006/0......th_cooks

Let's face it almost all the predictions made 10 years ago were wrong - temps, hurricanes, so forth. We have had very few years that outpaced the past records year to year. Now you want to take the same info from the same people and project forward 10 -100 years. Good luck with that.

The Doomsday Clock has me ROTFLMAO ... Arrest Al Gore. He lied to everyone and has made over $100 million since his hoodwinking began Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Jonathan Townsend
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On Jan 26, 2016, magicalaurie wrote:
... accuse folks of claiming to be concerned but, according to you, they don't actually do anything...



Recycling and general attempts to reduce ones envirornmental impact are laudable and civic minded in the larger sense. Styrofoam and wax coated paper cups are recycleable but need a little more processing than some folks expect.

This: "likely further destruction and oppression, on the world" is exactly the matter I've been going after. Even in miniature where folks wish to be infoterrorists fostering panic and self loathing. Here's the question I see as critical: What do we do when the other five plus billion people on this planet claim a right to do as we did? Nuke them? Do we plan on supporting repressive governments for some claimed planetwide greater good lest they light a candle against the darkness on their own?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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If anybody is causing global warming it is the bankers, for it is the bankers who give out the loans to buy the cars, etcetera. But we will never hear our climate hysteric leaders calling for the outlawing of debt to save the planet and why because our climate hysteric leaders are banker’s puppets of course. If you climate hysterics want to kill the bank to save the planet, then count me in. Make me Empower of the World and I will cancel all debt, ban money lending and save the planet in the of blink of an eye.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Tommy, folks have not read Graeber's book. Or Crichton's book. Yet the typing continues. Hot Earth Dreams current reading. Eggars's book Circle still looks relevant.

Rhetoric - persuasion. Compliance implies complicity. Agency.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Slim King
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A zillion years ago the earth was a molten ball.Then it started cooling and had a solid crust. It cooled more and there was land, lakes and oceans .. The earth is constantly in flux. To try to control the temperature of the world is unwise. It knows what it's doing.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Pop Haydn
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Slim King wrote:
A zillion years ago the earth was a molten ball.Then it started cooling and had a solid crust. It cooled more and there was land, lakes and oceans .. The earth is constantly in flux. To try to control the temperature of the world is unwise. It knows what it's doing.


Yep. Maybe it knows what it is doing...Maybe it knows it is trying to throw off this recent human infestation...maybe the earth is thinking that it is humans causing this fever...maybe it is right...
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Tommy, folks have not read Graeber's book. Or Crichton's book. Yet the typing continues. Hot Earth Dreams current reading. Eggars's book Circle still looks relevant.

Rhetoric - persuasion. Compliance implies complicity. Agency.


Yeah. Some of us struggle through the scientific papers instead of getting our science from fiction and/or anarchist economists. Strange state of affairs, eh?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Tommy, folks have not read Graeber's book. Or Crichton's book. Yet the typing continues. Hot Earth Dreams current reading. Eggars's book Circle still looks relevant.

Rhetoric - persuasion. Compliance implies complicity. Agency.


Yeah. Some of us struggle through the scientific papers instead of getting our science from fiction and/or anarchist economists. Strange state of affairs, eh?


The actual debate become much more difficult when you expand it to works of fiction. I agree.

It does not fill me with hope for understanding by anyone.

Then again Jurassic Park made a good point didn't it?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Hermit
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Slim King wrote:
A zillion years ago the earth was a molten ball.Then it started cooling and had a solid crust. It cooled more and there was land, lakes and oceans .. The earth is constantly in flux. To try to control the temperature of the world is unwise. It knows what it's doing.


Yep. Maybe it knows what it is doing...Maybe it knows it is trying to throw off this recent human infestation...maybe the earth is thinking that it is humans causing this fever...maybe it is right...


It is interesting when people assume that humans are some kind of alien species on the planet. How do we know that they are not a component of gaia? Maybe the earth needs humans and they were created to fill a need - either by evolution or otherwise. Maybe all of nature and creation includes us as a valuable piece. Who's to say?

I like the parallels between Christianity and Environmentalism. They're usually the same. The earth was a paradise, there was a fall (man becomes part of the picture) and now we live in sin (harm to the earth by existing, condemed to hell by merely existing). AGW is the sacrament of Scientism. All societies require a religion, Environmentalism is perfect for atheists and evolutionists.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Slim King wrote:
A zillion years ago the earth was a molten ball.Then it started cooling and had a solid crust. It cooled more and there was land, lakes and oceans .. The earth is constantly in flux. To try to control the temperature of the world is unwise. It knows what it's doing.


Yep. Maybe it knows what it is doing...Maybe it knows it is trying to throw off this recent human infestation...maybe the earth is thinking that it is humans causing this fever...maybe it is right...


It is interesting when people assume that humans are some kind of alien species on the planet. How do we know that they are not a component of gaia? Maybe the earth needs humans and they were created to fill a need - either by evolution or otherwise. Maybe all of nature and creation includes us as a valuable piece. Who's to say?

I like the parallels between Christianity and Environmentalism. They're usually the same. The earth was a paradise, there was a fall (man becomes part of the picture) and now we live in sin (harm to the earth by existing, condemed to hell by merely existing). AGW is the sacrament of Scientism. All societies require a religion, Environmentalism is perfect for atheists and evolutionists.


Who's to say?
Apparently you are.

The human psyche IS infected, and until that infection is expunged, by attrition, the downward spiral and worship of the status quo, will continue - to our children's detriment.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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On Jan 27, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:...
The human psyche IS infected, and until that infection is expunged, by attrition, the downward spiral and worship of the status quo, will continue - to our children's detriment.


That attrition may be soon - not even a generation away. Look at American demographics, number of fuel processing plants built...

I'm not going to condemn the human psyche as infected (by vanity chained to rancor by charlatans?). Self is. Finding options for coexistance may be a new topic/sport/...

Eggars's book The Circle may work as cautionary tale on that one - or Bruce Sterling's story The Swarm.

In fiction the reader is permitted to go at their own pace, taking a break where they wish - unlike the characters in the story. Reality happens at its own pace.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, The Hermit wrote:
...I like the parallels between Christianity and Environmentalism. ...


Paraphrasing Crichton? There's a general "do-gooder" problem with claims about what's good for others and what constitutes a greater good.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
...
Yeah. Some of us struggle through the scientific papers instead of getting our science from fiction and/or anarchist economists. Strange state of affairs, eh?


Quote:
Frank Landis - on November 12, 2015

Well, hopefully this book will make it easier for people to talk about climate change. Sometimes dry sarcasm can sneak in where other methods fail...



Some of those writers are also degreed scientists. Wasn't Freud a degreed doctor who had some troubles with folks accepting the unconsious. Tough to compete with gas prices though.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
... Maybe it knows what it is doing...


That strange projection of selfhood, an "it" which knows - as opposed to some constellation of its that have their own opinions perhaps? How clever to see "it" and to have knowlege of what "it" thinks, (says??) or wants as regards us.

We sometimes ponder what it might be like to see through other eyes. Does "it" show evidence of similar?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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An illusion is not entirely fiction as it is a distortion of the truth. When somebody takes a small truth and exaggerates what they create an illusion. That is the climate hysterics have done with global warming and they do that so with computer modelling and so on. So we might say that what climate hysterics have is science fiction. It matters not if the exaggerated prediction fails later because the point is to scare folk at the time into doing silly things like giving them money and power. Clymate hysterics will say “Yeah. Some of us struggle through the scientific papers instead of getting our science from fiction and/or anarchist economists. Strange state of affairs, eh?” Indeed it is.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
... Maybe it knows what it is doing...


That strange projection of selfhood, an "it" which knows - as opposed to some constellation of its that have their own opinions perhaps? How clever to see "it" and to have knowlege of what "it" thinks, (says??) or wants as regards us.

We sometimes ponder what it might be like to see through other eyes. Does "it" show evidence of similar?


Actually, I was poking fun at Slim's notion that the earth "knows" what it is doing:

"A zillion years ago the earth was a molten ball.Then it started cooling and had a solid crust. It cooled more and there was land, lakes and oceans .. The earth is constantly in flux. To try to control the temperature of the world is unwise. It knows what it's doing."

I don't think that it does, nor do I think the earth has shown any long term interest in mankind of any sort...
Jonathan Townsend
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Yes Pop, the post offered a place to address the basic notion of "theory of mind" where others can post to demonstrate how far, how deeply and how meaningful they find that lemma.

Chains of suspicion. Dominos of consequence.

Does it have to he a dark forest? Rhesus Chart vampire rule? Got a better citation for that strategy?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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