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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » New Report on Global Warming » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (153 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Yes that is a position I have not seen before.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Teddy Meagher
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On May 6, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes that is a position I have not seen before.


Would you mind explaining to me your position and what ideas you seem to disagree with me so much on. I am trying to explain what I have learned I don’t necessarily intend to change your view but I do want to understand where you’re coming from.
Teddy Meagher
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On May 6, 2018, rockwall wrote:
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On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
... All life have temperature ranges that they can only survive in, so it is important that temperatures do not rise to above 140 F on average.


Are you worried that temperatures will rise above 140 F on average??? If so, I'm afraid that you are really deluded.

Nope I’m not for my lifetime but if we keep harming the earth hundreds or maybe thousands of years later temperatures could be that high because of us, and even if temperatures weren’t on average 140 F but maybe reached 140 or above 5-10 times a year this would result in many deaths
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
... All life have temperature ranges that they can only survive in, so it is important that temperatures do not rise to above 140 F on average.


Are you worried that temperatures will rise above 140 F on average??? If so, I'm afraid that you are really deluded.

Nope I’m not for my lifetime but if we keep harming the earth hundreds or maybe thousands of years later temperatures could be that high because of us, and even if temperatures weren’t on average 140 F but maybe reached 140 or above 5-10 times a year this would result in many deaths

They just have you so scared don't they? This is the problem with brainwashing and doomsday scenarios.

You want to guard against what "may" happen in the future and are willing to sacrifice the present to make sure it doesn't happen.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
... and even if temperatures weren’t on average 140 F but maybe reached 140 or above 5-10 times a year this would result in many deaths


So, how do you feel about misguided policies killing millions now instead of 'potential' deaths hundreds of years in the future?

https://www.thegwpf.org/green-policies-t......nations/

"A new report from the Global Warming Policy Foundation finds that climate and green energy policies promoted by development organisations will cause millions of preventable deaths in the developing world."
Teddy Meagher
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Quote:
On May 6, 2018, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
... and even if temperatures weren’t on average 140 F but maybe reached 140 or above 5-10 times a year this would result in many deaths


So, how do you feel about misguided policies killing millions now instead of 'potential' deaths hundreds of years in the future?

https://www.thegwpf.org/green-policies-t......nations/

"A new report from the Global Warming Policy Foundation finds that climate and green energy policies promoted by development organisations will cause millions of preventable deaths in the developing world."


This article never says that this killed anyone, it claims that it would. So again these are potential deaths just like in my case. The reason that this article states is why people would die from this is because they wouldn't be able to reproduce the "public health miracle" in rich countries. These deaths while very unfortunate are happening and have been happening to poor countries forever. These laws will make it more difficult but not impossible to have renewable energy. Why would we let the poor countries make the same mistakes that we did with our energy debate. No one wants any deaths they're horrible, however if these poor countries were not forced to use renewable then they would have more health issues from the pollution like an increase in lung disease and heart problems. I also don't like that the government is forcing the poor countries to use biofules I think they should allow they to make the step to an electric grid, my only idea about that is that funding would make that not possible in a poor country which I believe is completely wrong but that's why I was never interested in politics just biology
Teddy Meagher
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Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
... All life have temperature ranges that they can only survive in, so it is important that temperatures do not rise to above 140 F on average.


Are you worried that temperatures will rise above 140 F on average??? If so, I'm afraid that you are really deluded.

Nope I’m not for my lifetime but if we keep harming the earth hundreds or maybe thousands of years later temperatures could be that high because of us, and even if temperatures weren’t on average 140 F but maybe reached 140 or above 5-10 times a year this would result in many deaths

They just have you so scared don't they? This is the problem with brainwashing and doomsday scenarios.

You want to guard against what "may" happen in the future and are willing to sacrifice the present to make sure it doesn't happen.


I like to prepare for the future, I sacrifice part of my check to a retirement to make sure I'm not poor when I retire, should I just stop saving cause I only "may" live to retirement? I don't believe I'm brainwashed, I have a curiosity for facts and based on the factual numbers and trend lines, that we use for plenty of things such as health care and stock markets to name a few, why do we fear trendlines in health care that say we are in a dangerous siutuation but when the climate change trendlines say were heading in a dangerous situation its not a big deal? You also never explained to me your thinking on this so I can understand where you're coming from, I'd like you to explain why you believe your position is the right one in your opinion. I'm interested to hear if you believe we should take any actions against climate change or just it happen?
Dannydoyle
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I have stated my position on many occasions in this thread. If you can't be bothered to read it then that is on you.

And you can prepare personally all you like. It is when it becomes policy and law that it needs to be a discussion.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Teddy Meagher
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I'm sorry but I cant read through 207 pages to get your position, I was willing to hear it out but it's not important to me, but I do agree when it becomes policy and law that there should be a discussion because climate change affects everyone and the policies about it will affect everyone. I think policies are needed to help and that not all policies are perfect and some people will suffer because of any changes, every single political policy that changes has an effect on people that comes with change, again I don't always agree with political policies and definitely don't agree with all of the climate change policies. However a lot of the policies in my opinion do good. I believe we agree that the politics regarding this are the issue, however I think perhaps we differ in that I believe we need to take some actions against climate change and you don't necessarily think that we do am I correct?
Dannydoyle
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What do you believe needs to be done, and how do you want to go about it? Don't forget we have a constitution that should be at least considered.

So what do you propose to do? What will it cost to do it? What will the benefit be from doing it? Most of all how will you force compliance from other nations?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Quote:
Most of all how will you force compliance from other nations?


Not sure what you mean by this. If a nation is not interested, they simply won't participate.
But there seems to be considerable interest around the world in participating in some sort of agreement, as witness the Paris meetings. Had the election gone differently, there might have even been US participation.
So I don't see it as a question of forcing compliance. Some governments are talking to each other because they perceive a common problem and are looking for a common solution.
(BTW don't take this to mean that I approve of carbon voucher trading type schemes. I don't.)
Teddy Meagher
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Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
What do you believe needs to be done, and how do you want to go about it? Don't forget we have a constitution that should be at least considered.

So what do you propose to do? What will it cost to do it? What will the benefit be from doing it? Most of all how will you force compliance from other nations?


First off I don't claim to have the perfect solution, but knowing that the causes of climate change are from green house gas emissions would lead me to believe that reducing green house gas emissions would be a good step, something many nations are already doing, and many of them to a larger extent than the US. I also think that switching to become more sustainable is another solution. I really believe strongly that planting trees and other plants can help because they can help to absorb some emissions out of the air. New England is considered a net carbon sink because of the amount of plants and trees, perhaps other areas could become carbon sinks with more trees and plants. I think that if we don't do anything that is extremely unconstitutional. (they made it illegal to smoke in a car with a passenger because of 2nd hand smoke, this is pretty similar to polluting the earth) If you pollute the earth and it causes me to be exposed to health risks then that would be considered unconstitutional, so I believe that taking actions is constitutional. One way to deal with this is to fine heavily people and businesses that are not willing to reduce the harm they are doing and to reward businesses and people for taking proper actions perhaps with tax reductions for compliance. This gives people and businesses who do not believe in climate change the opportunity to not change the way they operate however because they are unfairly putting others at health risks from pollution they will pay a fine. I have no idea what this would all cost but some of these fines can help pay for it, definitely not all of it. The benefit will be that many people wont have to wear masks to breath outside in the polluted air. Also shifting to renewable energy will make energy cheaper and eventually more accessible to poor countries causing a great deal of benefit. Having less pollution will help overall respiratory health which has the potential to save millions in healthcare cost. Lastly since many other nations are already taking the steps to battle climate change I have a very difficult time believing that many nations will need to be forced to comply. That is under your assumption that other nations don't want to take the steps to battle this issue however this is not true because there are other nations that can survive solely on renewable energy, so I doubt many nations will be forced into compliance, there are enough nations that understand the importance of this that the majority of the world wants to do something about this.
Jonathan Townsend
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On Sep 27, 2013, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
The social question has never been about climate change or the importance of energy efficiency to our future, but rather the extent to which a change in our activities can undo unhealthy climate instabilities and what the developing world will use instead of the carbon burning methods used in the prior two centuries. More to the point, if they want to burn oil and coal, what are we willing to do to them to prevent them from putting more carbon into the atmosphere?



Forced into compliance?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
RNK
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On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:

Since we know that we have caused this climate change and we are able to identify what we have specifically done to cause this change.


Who said we caused climate change?
Dannydoyle
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On May 7, 2018, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:

Since we know that we have caused this climate change and we are able to identify what we have specifically done to cause this change.


Who said we caused climate change?


People he agrees with.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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You're missing the do-gooderism: "This gives people and businesses who do not believe in climate change the opportunity to not change the way they operate however because they are unfairly putting others at health risks from pollution they will pay a fine."

fine... if you're the one imposing it.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On May 6, 2018, Teddy Meagher wrote:
I'm sorry but I cant read through 207 pages to get your position...


It helps to look at where we've been so you can point to somewhere forward.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 7, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
You're missing the do-gooderism: "This gives people and businesses who do not believe in climate change the opportunity to not change the way they operate however because they are unfairly putting others at health risks from pollution they will pay a fine."

fine... if you're the one imposing it.


He seems to miss the totalitarian nature of this plan. Which is why I bring up our Constitution.

Totalitarian government seems great when they do things you agree with. Not so much when they do things you disagree with.

I don't want the government to have the power to pick winners and losers any more than they already do.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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Then who decides?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Dannydoyle
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On May 7, 2018, NYCTwister wrote:
Then who decides?


ANY way but for a government with totalitarian powers.

Is your plan to have government decide winners and losers in life?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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