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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
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On Sep 1, 2016, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Fictional words, granted. My point was that, here was the voice of reason that everyone wanted to believe, and she turned out to be wrong!
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If somebody did parlour tricks to bamboozle the public and tried to pass them off as science, as opposed to illusions, then you would certainly call it pseudoscience and charlatan, would you not?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
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On Sep 2, 2016, Gorlzax wrote: Quote:
On Sep 2, 2016, tommy wrote: Yeeeah, did you see what you just did there? You absolutely didn't answer in any way to the questions I made - not even close! But hey, that is one sort of illusion by itself. It looks like you are taking part in this discussion, when actually you are not! You sir, are a magician! (Which of course is not a surprise on this forum) |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Do you mean yeeeah, if somebody did parlour tricks to bamboozle the public and tried to pass them off as science, as opposed to illusions, then you would certainly call it pseudoscience and charlatan?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2016, tommy wrote: You really are a magician! But you know, you should not show the same illusion twice. But I'll answer your question, because it would be rude not to: the answer is no, I did not mean that.The "yeeeah" was a hesitated acknowledgement that I saw what you wrote and that it had nothing to do with what I asked you. Does that make it clear? Good that you asked so there will be no misunderstanding. And also I will be happy to answer your question about parlor tricks, illusions and bamboozlements (what a great word that is!) if you open that metaphor up, because right now I don't know what you are talking about. Do you? What are these parlour tricks that have been tried to pass off as science? Wait, this sounds familiar! Let me see: Quote:
On Sep 2, 2016, Gorlzax wrote: Oh yes, that's right. We kind of had this conversation before but that time without the metaphor. And also last time you did not answer but instead came up with this metaphor which kind of just made it all more cryptic. You know, its ok if you tommy just have an opinion about GW or anything else for that matter and it is not based on anything that you could refer to. That it is just your opinion; "because I think it is so" or "because for me it feels like that". Then you should just be clear about it and not try to pass it as something that has any general relevance. From your next post that is aimed for me, I really hope that there is even some kind of attempt to approach the questions I have many times given to you and/or some kind of, any kind of, reference to what are your arguments based on. You know, I cant help but to think that if somebody who is undecided on the issue at hand comes here and reads this thread, what do you think that person will see and think about this discussion. Lets all sleep on that thought. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
No I am not a magician but merely a man playing the part of magician sometimes. Now if somebody did parlour tricks to bamboozle the public and tried to pass them off as science, as opposed to illusions, then I would certainly call it pseudoscience and charlatan whatever the parlour tricks may be. Wouldn’t any reasonable man do so? I mean it seems reasonable to me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On Sep 27, 2013, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Can we get past the Pascal wager delusion and on to the actual question? "if they want to burn oil and coal, what are we willing to do to them to prevent them from putting more carbon into the atmosphere? " :) Fiction is a safe place to explore answers to questions. Then again it helps to know that there are questions and also why it's not so safe to explore some in the social world.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The questions that are pertinent are the following
1) What do you propose to do? 2) What will it cost to implement? 3) What will be the benefit of doing so? Nobody wants to answer these simple questions.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
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On Sep 2, 2016, tommy wrote: Well you sure are excelent in the art of misdirection! And I'll just reply to you with the words of mr Townsend, because they are more than appropriate: Quote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote: |
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: Great questions! But what do you mean when you say that nobody wants to answer these questions? These are the fundamental questions people are dealing with around the world, every day! My guess is that it is the other way around - there are some people who don't want to hear the answers. Still here goes: 1) What do you propose to do? This is easily a trick question. Somebody might read it as if nothing had done yet! But there has been, plenty! And we need to keep going into that direction! What are nations doing to fight climate change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Uni......nference Here is many answers to what you can, as an individual, do: https://youtu.be/VTfgNFz1DBM And I would add, that eating less meat and changing to a more vegetatian dietary is also necessary. Not just for GW but so that there would be enough food for everybody in this world. 2) What will it cost to implement? As you can see we are dealing with smaller day to day choises and also bigger how do we produce energy, how do we produce our food, where and in what kind of houses do we live changes. So hard to put one price on that. Also if looking from the past, with just worried for the loss of the old technology and old solutions, one might not see the possibilites in the new. People are saying that green energy is just a big business! Well I sure hope so - and hope it becomes even bigger. Oil has been one the biggest businesses of modern times, I hope it will be something else from now on. Even the oil companies are waking up to this: BP, the largest oil company in the UK and one of the largest in the world, has this opinion: "There is an increasing consensus that climate change is linked to the consumption of carbon based fuels and that action is required now to avoid further increases in carbon emissions as the global demand for energy increases." Shell Oil (yes, as in oil, the fossil fuel) says: "Shell shares the widespread concern that the emission of greenhouse gases from human activities is leading to changes in the global climate." 3) What will be the benefit of doing so? Lets say that for a moment we agree that GW is caused humans putting so much greenhouse gas into the atmosphere. Ok? From this perspective, is your question that what will it benefit that we put LESS greenhouse gas into the atmosphere? So if one cant get around the fact that we have an impact on this matter, then I guess there isn't anything that can be said about the benefits to act on climate change. But then again if one understands the impact we have on climate then it is just the most obvious thing to act on it. And in a way we are already too late. It is not a question that can we avoid the effects of global warming, we are over that line already, it is a question, how can we from this situation do everything we can so that we might be able to avoid the most catastrophic scenarios. |
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: One more comment. because I just emphasized how important it is to answer the questions and not just shout something that comes off the top of the head, here is my answer to your question about force compliance. Again, there is this trick question quality to your question: like we werent already doing the things we need to do. We are! Exclamation intended. We just need to keep doing it more and more. There already is for example, in many countries, emission tax which encourages companies to go green. There are areas where private motoring is not allowed so you need to use the public transportation, which is made completely free in some citys. In my country we already recycle most of our carbage, to energy waste, bio waste, paper, plastic, glass and finally the mixed waste that can not be utilized. In many finnish schools there is vegetarian food day at least once a week. So more than punishments and penalties it is about education, its about awareness and its about encouragement. that's how it works here. And here, end of my post, I will put another question that will most likely go unanswered: what do you think about it - how do you force compliance? |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On Sep 3, 2016, Gorlzax wrote: Keep going. The book "Hot Earth Dreams" addresses some of this - and it's written by a scientist and for the explicit purpose of helping engage in this uncomfortable discussion. The politics of compliance/consent was addressed in the Crichton book using "save the world - environment" as plot driver and hobby horse research project. My only criticism of Danny's question would be about its scope - cost to who etc... but again it's not productive to distract by ad-hominem "let's make this all about my new sneakers or your old hat" arguments. 1, 2 or comment number three about distraction? Go for number four it's safely meta
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Jonathan that is true. But the scope is global. Coat to the world? And again how do we force global compliance? Without it nothing works does it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Gorlzax wrote: If fiction is a safe place to explore answers to questions and think it is a fiction or hypothetical question then why are you so scared to answer it?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Who is the "you" in that post and what is the "it" you are asking about?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Good questions Jonathan. I have been trying to ask what is the "it" behind his metaphor, but that has not been opened yet. |
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Gorlzax New user 39 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: Ok. I see, you agree with GW that has been caused by humans. Good. Now I understand. Good that you made that clear. I was distracted by your not-at-all-arogant reply to my post where I took time to really answer your questions: Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Gorlzax wrote: And your reply without responding to any of the points and questions that I made was: "One more question for you not to answer." And you made a question to which I of course answered. And again you did not. So let me rephrase this comment that you felt contained some name calling. And of course it was insulting to you, because I thought you to vwere a denier, which you are not: Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Gorlzax wrote: I'll rephrase it as: "You blame me for not answering your question (which of course I have over and over again done) so it is really funny how you don't answer a singel question yourself" |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
@Danny, a sense of consent suffices for all but the few with resources to oppose.
Armys know to break step when crossing bridges. As long as the sheep can be herded, what benefit to teaching them to march or bleat in harmony? The notion of magicians unable to consider the view of their audience is about as surprising as a blind person singing "isn't she lovely"... Now if only they could sing that well. Confusing closing thought...a mashup of "stay" with "you got the love". Have a funky Saturday. This week drags by me so slowly /give me the strength...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The `it` Jon is the question that I asked three times above and the `you` there is Gorlzax, since he made excuses for not answering it three times. The question is however open to anybody and is a simple one:
If somebody did parlour tricks to bamboozle the public and tried to pass them off as science, as opposed to illusions, then you would certainly call it pseudoscience and charlatan, would you not?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
How specifically does going ad-hominem - addressing a large scale political question to personal style or communication skills - help in a dialogue about entropy and the cost of the human standard of living?
Satir / distractor / entertainment / product Can you afford other technology? Show me some I can afford.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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