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Jonathan Townsend
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Pollen? We're not talking about pollen as our global climate problem. Carbon dioxide and heat. Let's say you had a greenhouse and could heat the inside and add carbon dioxide. Arguing that the plants grow to use the gas and thrive in the heat is ... better after some experimentation.
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
But media bias that agrees with your opinion is not bias right?


What about you, Danny? Is media bias that agrees with your opinion not biased??

My opinion is irrelevant to whether or not any particular media outlet exhibits a bias. Again, see my link. It doesn't favor any particular side. If a left-leaning media outlet posted something contrary to science, I would not hesitate to challenge them on it.

Thanks Danny.

Ron


Yea see you have a record that kind of implies that isn't true. The is NO WAY any media source can be 100% right yet you never stand against left leaning shying except to claim it should be MORE left leaning. So you just can't really back that noon partisan claim up.


Please give me an example where I said a media outlet "should be MORE left leaning".

You didn't answer the question... What about you, Danny? Is media bias that agrees with your opinion not biased??

And isn't it true that you have already acknowledged that man made climate change is real? And that the dispute is what to do about it? (not putting words in your mouth here - I truly want to understand your position)


Ron



Perhps I should have not brought up the point of getting rid of one state and the election as that is a whole different can of worms and we all know that it will cause nothing bring chaos to any discussion. Fact of the mater is that Hillary lost the election according to the way the United States runs presidential elections and that is all that really matters. End of that story. Hillary's whole campaign was nothing more than a victory celebration to her supposed win which was a big mistake on her part.

Back on topic. If Global Warming is an issue it is defitely serious. However I don't believe it is an issue as perceived by the alarmists. That is nothing more than my opinion and I am entitled to it. I just keep hearing about peer reviews and when I cited some peer reviewsthat did not agree with your views you get upset.

Has there been climate change in the past? My guess is yes and it will continue in the future and is inevitable. But as to whether it is the end of the world as we know it? I highly doubt that. check out this link: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/......by-2015/ I don't know that it is even a bad thing for sure. Also it is not about to happen in the next 10 lifetimes and there is no telling that it will even happen. The scientific community and it's knowledge is always changing. Aids was supposed to wipe out the entire population of the world. It was the pandemic that was going to end mankind. Prepare for the end. We are still here and so is NYC. Just saying. The only guys making a lot on this are the ones that are researching and saying that the end is near because of Climate Change and the guys selling sandwich boards saying "Climate Change is ending the world. the end is near". Otherwise all is the same and you and I have not been affected in the least. I am not procrastinating I am being what can be deemed as logical. Calm down. The end is not near the beaches are not going disappearing, NYC is still there etc.

You asked why I posted what I posted. The answer is that because I believe that there is not cause for alarm that the world is ending because of Climate Change and it is nothing more than what the earth has been going though for as long as it has been in existence and will continue to do so. Nothing drastic is about to occur. Sorry to disappoint the alarmists. However we will continue to spend billions of dollars so scientists can have something to write about and earn a living. I know if I was one of them I sure would not cast aside the gifted horse and say it is all baloney. You surely do not cut off your nose to spite your face. Again my opinion. YMMV.
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny I will agree that the effect of rain is small. BUT to think that rain doesn’t wash some of the pollen and other harmful stuff from the air is as dumb as it gets. It helps in that area for awhile and I cannot believe you don't know that. Have you ever even walked outside? I bet you have never smelled good clean air right after a rain. You must live like a hermit.

Tom


So because you can smell "good clean air" after a rain you think there is no problem with pollution? YOU THINK that is the rain washing the air? And I live like a hermit? ARE YOU THAT DELUSIONAL? Seriously? I have no words to describe this.

What does pollen have to do with greenhouse gasses? What does it have to do with ANYTHING we are discussing? Oh my lord this is just hard to imagine. What are you babbling about?

Does air ever smell clean without rain?
Danny Doyle
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TomBoleware
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I believe I said “pollen and OTHER HARMFUL STUFF.”

Just so you know, the temperature usually drops a little right after a rain too.

But you right, it doesn’t solve the problem of pollution. It will take more than rain to completely
clean the air over every area in the world.

Tom
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Dannydoyle
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So pollen is harmful to the environment?
Danny Doyle
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Some people view pollen as an air pollutant.

But it is not the pollen that turns rain into ACID RAIN.

Acid rain is rain that contains a high concentration of pollutants, mainly sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxide, released
into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels such as coal or oil. It's called ACID RAIN for a reason.

Again, rain alone is not enough, but yes it does help.


And that fresh air after a rain smells so good. Smile

Tom
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Jonathan Townsend
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Water has a pH about 7. That's ten to the minus seven molar concentration of hydrogen ions per liter of water. Scary.

The rain smell even has a name: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-na......3806085/

It's gonna be an interesting time getting goods and services to folks if everybody stops using gasoline all of the sudden.
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Dannydoyle
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OH MY GOD you are just clueless!

Acid rain sort of counters your point that the earth will be OK doesn't it?

What exactly is your point Tom? What exactly are you saying? It is so hard to follow.

So is pollen harmful to the environment or to people?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:

You wanting single payer health care is an example of needing more left policy.


Where did I say I wanted single payer health care??


Quote:
And of course any source is bias. BUT my point is that YOU NEVER are critical of left leaning sources. You ALWAYS defend them. You are a partisan hack plain and simple.


It’s simply not true that I am NEVER critical of left-leaning sources (in some circles I might not even be considered to be on the left). But anyway, thank you very much for telling me who I should or shouldn’t be critical of. I could have sworn my opinions were my own. And speaking of partisanship, we all know where YOU’RE coming from, now don’t we?


Quote:
As for the climate, man MUST affect it. How can we not? Now is it something we can reverse, is it something that is worth the money to try to control and is it worth giving up freedom and such? Well those are the policy debates that get sticky.

OF COURSE we have impact on our environment. You can not live some place and not. Is it good or bad? THAT is the question. Pollution is a good example. Old mother nature will not take care of it regardless of those who seem to think the rain washes the air. (Oh how dumb.) We are the ones who should be smart enough to take care of our planet. Yes it will eventually clean itself in a billion years once we are gone. It will shake us off like a bad cold. BUT who wants that?

Heck from a SELFISH point of view we need to make it habitable for OURSELVES! Planet will eventually be ok on a billion year time frame. We may be 3 evolutionary cycles down the road and long distant memories! Who wants that?

Now do we need to throw ourselves into economic Armageddon to do it? No.


So, again it seems that 1) you and I agree that man made climate change is real. And 2) you also seem to be wary (even critical) of media bias. But yet when I called out Acesover’s media biased post concerning a topic you and I ostensibly agree on, you hypocritically railed against… ME! WOW!! So much for your concerns about 1) media bias and 2) climate change.

Quote:
The problem is simply that it is an economic ideological debate disguised as science and doomsday prophecy.


Wait… are you saying that there is no science behind climate change?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
TomBoleware
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Danny, my point is that rain helping clean the air is not as ‘dumb’ as you say it is.

And let me add, much of this dirty rain water ends up in the rivers and streams where it flows downstream as it purifies itself, later it is sucked back up by the sun, and then it comes right back down again. It’s Mother Nature hard at work for us.


Tom
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tommy
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Scientists are attempting to control the weather by using lasers to create clouds and rain

Where have you been my blue eyed sun?

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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
But media bias that agrees with your opinion is not bias right?


What about you, Danny? Is media bias that agrees with your opinion not biased??

My opinion is irrelevant to whether or not any particular media outlet exhibits a bias. Again, see my link. It doesn't favor any particular side. If a left-leaning media outlet posted something contrary to science, I would not hesitate to challenge them on it.

Thanks Danny.

Ron


Yea see you have a record that kind of implies that isn't true. The is NO WAY any media source can be 100% right yet you never stand against left leaning shying except to claim it should be MORE left leaning. So you just can't really back that noon partisan claim up.


Please give me an example where I said a media outlet "should be MORE left leaning".

You didn't answer the question... What about you, Danny? Is media bias that agrees with your opinion not biased??

And isn't it true that you have already acknowledged that man made climate change is real? And that the dispute is what to do about it? (not putting words in your mouth here - I truly want to understand your position)


Ron


Back on topic. If Global Warming is an issue it is defitely serious. However I don't believe it is an issue as perceived by the alarmists.


Who are the "alarmists"? NASA? The American Meteorological Society? The other 188 organizations that I listed? Do you consider those organizations knowledgeable and credible?

Quote:
That is nothing more than my opinion and I am entitled to it. I just keep hearing about peer reviews and when I cited some peer reviewsthat did not agree with your views you get upset.


No, I'm not "upset." But what are you basing your opinion on? Because it's certainly not the majority scientific consensus view.


Quote:
The scientific community and it's knowledge is always changing.


Yes. Because that's how progress is made! We incorporate new facts/discoveries into our model of the world in order to gain a better understanding of the way things work. If we are not willing to revise our views then we cannot possibly make progress, right?

Quote:
Aids was supposed to wipe out the entire population of the world. It was the pandemic that was going to end mankind.


Who was saying that?? There might have been a few people saying it (probably the ultra religious), but I don't recall any scientists making that claim.

Quote:
The only guys making a lot on this are the ones that are researching and saying that the end is near because of Climate Change and the guys selling sandwich boards saying "Climate Change is ending the world. the end is near".


You can't possibly believe this hogwash. I gotta believe you're just joking here. But in all seriousness, we all know who is invested in keeping the masses in the dark (or at least doubtful) about climate change. You do the math.

Quote:
The answer is that because I believe that there is not cause for alarm that the world is ending because of Climate Change and it is nothing more than what the earth has been going though for as long as it has been in existence and will continue to do so. Nothing drastic is about to occur. Sorry to disappoint the alarmists. However we will continue to spend billions of dollars so scientists can have something to write about and earn a living. I know if I was one of them I sure would not cast aside the gifted horse and say it is all baloney. You surely do not cut off your nose to spite your face. Again my opinion. YMMV.


And what if you were an oil executive - would you want to cast aside the "gifted horse" and say that climate change is real??

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny, my point is that rain helping clean the air is not as ‘dumb’ as you say it is.

And let me add, much of this dirty rain water ends up in the rivers and streams where it flows downstream as it purifies itself, later it is sucked back up by the sun, and then it comes right back down again. It’s Mother Nature hard at work for us.


Tom


Tom,

From my previous post:

What do you mean by “Mother Nature is doing everything it can to take care of us”? Are you saying that the weather/ecosystem has the best interests of humans in mind? Are you saying that the weather/ecosystem is a sentient entity with "goals"? If so, how do you explain the tens of thousands killed every year in earthquakes, floods, tornados, etc.?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Ron,

I can’t explain why we have earthquakes, floods, tornados, etc, besides it’s not nice to question Mother Nature. Smile
But seriously, I have no idea WHY it happens.

As for as Nature taking care of us, FOR ME it does seem like there has been a lot of the dots already connected in order for us to live on this earth. We have different seasons for a reason. It rains for a reason. Plants grow in dirt for a reason. The wind blows for a reason. We have fresh water for a reason. We have insects for a reason. We have animals for a reason. We have night and day for a reason. And a million other things that we take for granted. Sure most of this can be explained as to how it is that way. But not everyone can see WHY it is that way. Sure sounds like a plan to me.


But anyway, yes nature is hard at work helping us prevent climate change. See this link to see how Mother Earth's land and oceans currently absorb about half of all carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and other sources.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/12/how-mothe......nge.html

Tom
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tommy
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Unlike believers, nature never lies.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, R.S. wrote:
....

And what if you were an oil executive - would you want to cast aside the "gifted horse" and say that climate change is real??

Ron


Umm, apparently so.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environ......ris-deal

"Oil giants BP and Shell and a group of utilities and tech companies are pushing President Trump to stay in the Paris climate deal.

In a letter sent to Trump on Wednesday, the firms said the deal benefits U.S. companies by putting them on an even playing field with foreign competitors, creates jobs through clean energy work and minimizes the risks climate change poses to them. "
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The climate is changing. You do realize that it has been changing throughout the earth's existence but not necessarily because of what man is doing? Having said that it will continue to change no matter what man does or does not do. The climate changing is a natural thing and will continue. It however is not destroying all living things and is not the end of the world. It is nature doing what it does.

Question: How much has the USA contributed to this deal and how much have the other nations contributed? Do some research.

This sounds like pseudo science:

Emission Scenarios from NASA

Scientists predict the range of likely temperature increase by running many possible future scenarios through climate models. Although some of the uncertainty in climate forecasts comes from imperfect knowledge of climate feedbacks, the most significant source of uncertainty in these predictions is that scientists don’t know what choices people will make to control greenhouse gas emissions.

The higher estimates are made on the assumption that the entire world will continue using more and more fossil fuel per capita, a scenario scientists call “business-as-usual.” More modest estimates come from scenarios in which environmentally friendly technologies such as fuel cells, solar panels, and wind energy replace much of today’s fossil fuel combustion.

It takes decades to centuries for Earth to fully react to increases in greenhouse gases. Carbon dioxide, among other greenhouse gases, will remain in the atmosphere long after emissions are reduced, contributing to continuing warming. In addition, as Earth has warmed, much of the excess energy has gone into heating the upper layers of the ocean. Like a hot water bottle on a cold night, the heated ocean will continue warming the lower atmosphere well after greenhouse gases have stopped increasing.

These considerations mean that people won’t immediately see the impact of reduced greenhouse gas emissions. Even if greenhouse gas concentrations stabilized today, the planet would continue to warm by about 0.6°C over the next century because of greenhouses gases already in the atmosphere.

Having said all of that we don't even know where most of our energy wil be coming from 10 years from now, much less 25 or more.

Again the nation that will be harmed the most financially with all of this is the USA because of where we stand with our current manufacturing processes and our way of life. Again how much have other nations contributed and how much has the USA contributed? We are just supposed to cut back in our manufacturing and change our way of life and tax us more ... so that what? Others can sit back and catch up and ask for more? How long must we support the whole world as they just keep asking for more and more and give less and less?

It just seems that this global warming has gone from "global warming" to "climate change" to who knows what next to do nothing more than stimulate growth in other nations while curtailing growth in the USA. Do some research not just on the end of the world scenarios and the flooding of cities that you read about. Read about the repercussions of what this Paris Accord is all about and how it affects the world economy.

Stop being like mushrooms and living in the dark and being fed BS. Find out what is really behind all of this Global Warming and the World Economics that it entails. Honestly if I felt that this was a world crisis I would be the first inline to say, Let's do something. But don't let them pee on your leg and tell you it is raining out. Check out the facts and economic ramifications and stop being bullied into believing that we are going to drown in the next few years because all of the ice melted. Not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.

Might have some typos in this did not proof read. I am going to bed. It is late.
Smile Smile Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Ron,

I can’t explain why we have earthquakes, floods, tornados, etc, besides it’s not nice to question Mother Nature. Smile
But seriously, I have no idea WHY it happens.

As for as Nature taking care of us, FOR ME it does seem like there has been a lot of the dots already connected in order for us to live on this earth. We have different seasons for a reason. It rains for a reason. Plants grow in dirt for a reason. The wind blows for a reason. We have fresh water for a reason. We have insects for a reason. We have animals for a reason. We have night and day for a reason. And a million other things that we take for granted. Sure most of this can be explained as to how it is that way. But not everyone can see WHY it is that way. Sure sounds like a plan to me.


Sure there are "reasons" for the things you mentioned (i.e., the earth's tilted axis and orbit is the reason for seasons). But what do you mean, a "plan"? That infers some sort of conscious goal-oriented scheme. One can look at ANY system - no matter how chaotic or orderly - and say it's a "plan". But what does that really mean? By the way, there have been 5 great extinctions on the planet and more than 90% of all species that has ever lived are extinct. If that's a "plan", it doesn't sound like a very good one. What do you think it would be like if there were no "plan"? Do you think we would still see weather, natural disasters, extinct species, etc.? How would things be different under the "no plan" model?


Quote:
Quote:
But anyway, yes nature is hard at work helping us prevent climate change. See this link to see how Mother Earth's land and oceans currently absorb about half of all carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and other sources.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/12/how-mothe......




The headline is misleading because if you read the article, it doesn't seem to dispute climate change. in fact, it says:

Since the Industrial Revolution, carbon levels have increased 2.5 times to more than 400 parts per million at present, said Michael Freilich, director of NASA's Earth Science Division, in a call with reporters Thursday. That is higher than it has been in the last 400,000 years.

and...

Forests on land — increasingly prone to wildfires — may be emitting more carbon than they take in, as well. Wildfires were rampant across much of the western United States in 2015. Research released this year said wildfire seasons are lasting longer almost everywhere on the planet. Even Alaska saw an unusually high number of wildfires this year.

Warming is also causing permafrost on the world's tundras to thaw, which is releasing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere as well, according to research.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 8, 2017, R.S. wrote:
....

And what if you were an oil executive - would you want to cast aside the "gifted horse" and say that climate change is real??

Ron


Umm, apparently so.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environ......ris-deal

"Oil giants BP and Shell and a group of utilities and tech companies are pushing President Trump to stay in the Paris climate deal.

In a letter sent to Trump on Wednesday, the firms said the deal benefits U.S. companies by putting them on an even playing field with foreign competitors, creates jobs through clean energy work and minimizes the risks climate change poses to them. "


A big part of that motivation is the fact that those companies are actually diversified energy firms that rely heavily on natural gas to make money. Plus, the government's crack down on carbon emissions is another factor. At any rate, do you agree with the President that climate change is a Chinese hoax?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2017, acesover wrote:
The climate is changing. You do realize that it has been changing throughout the earth's existence but not necessarily because of what man is doing? Having said that it will continue to change no matter what man does or does not do. The climate changing is a natural thing and will continue. It however is not destroying all living things and is not the end of the world. It is nature doing what it does.

Question: How much has the USA contributed to this deal and how much have the other nations contributed? Do some research.

This sounds like pseudo science:

Emission Scenarios from NASA

Scientists predict the range of likely temperature increase by running many possible future scenarios through climate models. Although some of the uncertainty in climate forecasts comes from imperfect knowledge of climate feedbacks, the most significant source of uncertainty in these predictions is that scientists don’t know what choices people will make to control greenhouse gas emissions.

The higher estimates are made on the assumption that the entire world will continue using more and more fossil fuel per capita, a scenario scientists call “business-as-usual.” More modest estimates come from scenarios in which environmentally friendly technologies such as fuel cells, solar panels, and wind energy replace much of today’s fossil fuel combustion.

It takes decades to centuries for Earth to fully react to increases in greenhouse gases. Carbon dioxide, among other greenhouse gases, will remain in the atmosphere long after emissions are reduced, contributing to continuing warming. In addition, as Earth has warmed, much of the excess energy has gone into heating the upper layers of the ocean. Like a hot water bottle on a cold night, the heated ocean will continue warming the lower atmosphere well after greenhouse gases have stopped increasing.

These considerations mean that people won’t immediately see the impact of reduced greenhouse gas emissions. Even if greenhouse gas concentrations stabilized today, the planet would continue to warm by about 0.6°C over the next century because of greenhouses gases already in the atmosphere.

Having said all of that we don't even know where most of our energy wil be coming from 10 years from now, much less 25 or more.

Again the nation that will be harmed the most financially with all of this is the USA because of where we stand with our current manufacturing processes and our way of life. Again how much have other nations contributed and how much has the USA contributed? We are just supposed to cut back in our manufacturing and change our way of life and tax us more ... so that what? Others can sit back and catch up and ask for more? How long must we support the whole world as they just keep asking for more and more and give less and less?

It just seems that this global warming has gone from "global warming" to "climate change" to who knows what next to do nothing more than stimulate growth in other nations while curtailing growth in the USA. Do some research not just on the end of the world scenarios and the flooding of cities that you read about. Read about the repercussions of what this Paris Accord is all about and how it affects the world economy.

Stop being like mushrooms and living in the dark and being fed BS. Find out what is really behind all of this Global Warming and the World Economics that it entails. Honestly if I felt that this was a world crisis I would be the first inline to say, Let's do something. But don't let them pee on your leg and tell you it is raining out. Check out the facts and economic ramifications and stop being bullied into believing that we are going to drown in the next few years because all of the ice melted. Not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.

Might have some typos in this did not proof read. I am going to bed. It is late.
Smile Smile Smile


Is climate change a Chinese hoax? Yes or no?
Is there a massive conspiracy amongst all the organizations I listed? Yes or no?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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