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Anand Khalsa Loyal user Phoenix, AZ 201 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Couldn't agree with you more. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The argument is about:
1) who pays for developing this desired technology? and 2) who is gonna tell the billions who are just now getting electricity and TV and cars that "it's not okay to do like we are doing now"? and 3) what do you condone doing if "they" ignore your arguments? and ... 4!) for you and I - do we really trust those who claim good intentions about spending lots more tax money as they investigate that first item about new technology? :)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Anand Khalsa Loyal user Phoenix, AZ 201 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2017, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Your framing implies that the technology I'm suggesting we adopt is untested or undeveloped. Renewable energy resources like wind and solar are as old as dirt. Solar architecture and technology dates back to Ancient China. Wind power has been utilized for two millennia. Even if I granted you that climate change wasn't real, we aren't going to be able to extract fossil fuels forever. When that happens, the cost of transitioning the world to renewable resources will look pretty modest compared to the destruction caused by a massive energy crisis. To address your last point, I'm far more uncomfortable with the government propping up and subsidising giant fossil fuel companies. Talk about crony capitalism. Again even if I granted you that climate change wasn't real, the continued burning of fossil fuels makes no sense from a purely pragmatic, economic standpoint. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
To be fair as of this minute we have no alternative. The goal should be to develop new tech. Wind and solar are just not enough to power our economic engine. As it stands today that is.
Stunting development of tech is stupid. But throwing money at Sylindra seems like just as bad a move as far as croney capitalism goes, it is just that you like the company better and agree with the political party that did it. But new tech is needed. We won't run out of fuel any time soon. Let's grant we have an infinite supply. We had an infinite supply of buggy whips as well and that was not a good enough reason not to transition to the better tech. Same here. Dead dinosaurs rolling around our gas tanks is so unnecessary eventually. Hopefully eventually in my lifetime. I'm buying a Tesla. Not to save the planet, because it is cool tech.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I put in the item numbers
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2017, Anand Khalsa wrote: 1) Yes. I can't afford to switch over to Tesla today and no idea about heat/roads etc with alternate technology. Have you (or can you) switch over to that non-petrochemical tech today at an immediate dollar cost/benefit to yourself? If so - that's great. My understanding is that by and large today it would be a huge hardship. And then there's the "rest" of the people on the planet who want their time to enjoy technology as we did. 2) Solar cells ... not yet for keeping the internet/cable TV/cities... Think back to pre-oil tech and the rest of how things were then - indoor plumbing for us everyday folks is a recent development... thanks to coal/oil/propane heating and all the rest of the technology from concrete to large scale metallurgy to make pipes and plumbing and furnaces ... 3) You don't need to "grant" anything. Nobody's arguing with Danny's Dog. The "denial of reality" seems more a publicity thing for liability purposes anyway as a very large demographic shift occurs. Do we still have cigarettes and tobacco growers? The energy per person physics/thermodynamics was settled early last century and short of magic/cold fusion using coffee grounds and bananna peels. And in the mean time engineers are still at work to improve material use, application ... developing - that's what they do. 4) Propping up... when was the last time you saw a figure of Ford ground up in effigy? Or the twentieth century oil barons named and cursed? Please consider your item 4 while taking into account presidents 41 and 43. Got oil? Smaller scale reality question: how are folks about reconsidering Styrofoam? That was a big recycling discussion last generation.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Nobody argues with my dog. He is huge.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2017, Anand Khalsa wrote: Really?!?! OK, stop burning fossil fuels today. How pragmatic and economically feasible is that? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've seen posted hear. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
There has to be a transitional period. But to try to force this tech into our economic engine prior to it being able to sustain us is to invite disaster.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
I'm all for clean energy if it's affordable. Give me a cheaper way to drive my car or heat my home and I'll line right up. Charge me twice as much and I'm not so interested.
While we may not be able to extract fossil fuels forever, we've been told that they'll only last another '10 years' or so about every 10 years for the last 50 years. It's become a bit like the boy who cried wolf. (Youngsters who've only been around 20 years or so may not be aware of this.) |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Http://notrickszone.com/2017/12/04/whist......GyB.dpbs
"In a new paper published in Earth Systems and Environment this month, Australian scientists Dr. Albert Parker and Dr. Clifford Ollier uncover evidence that Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level (PSMSL) overseers appear to have been engaging in the “highly questionable” and “suspicious” practice of adjusting historical tide gauge data to show recent accelerated sea level rise where no such acceleration (or rise) exists." "What is wrong is the way that the scientists at PSMSL have adjusted them. In every case, they have revised them in order to make them produce a sharp upward trend in sea level rise – despite the fact that global records do not support this." Sounds quite similar to what has been done with the temperature record. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 12, 2017, rockwall wrote: Exactly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Baby it's cold outside!
http://notrickszone.com/2017/12/28/7-new......C6O.dpbs 7 New (2017) Papers Forecast Global Cooling, Another Little Ice Age Will Begin Soon "Solar scientists are now increasingly forecasting a period of very low activity that will commence in the next few years (by around 2020 to 2025). This will lead to climate cooling, even Little Ice Age conditions. Thirteen recently-published papers forecasting global cooling are listed below." |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 4, 2018, rockwall wrote: Remember Rockwall, according to the believers it's because of Global Warming that cooling is happening.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Yes, I realize that anything that happens can and will be blamed on AGW even when it's in contradiction to exactly what they used to claim would be the results of AGW.
https://www.onenewsnow.com/science-tech/......g-did-it "Originally, we were told that snow would be a thing of the past, that children just wouldn't know what snow was," he tells OneNewsNow. "Then we saw record snows and blizzards – and then we were told that was caused by global warming. Now we're being told the record cold is caused by global warming in a rather complicated scenario affecting jet streams and increasing extremes in the planet." The problem, says Morano, is there is no weather event that those proponents can't blame on global warming. "It's almost as if it's a comedy of explanations," he continues. "They really just will do and say whatever they need in order to make it all fit and reassure themselves that every weather event is consistent with global warming." What if scientists have a better understanding today of climate change than they did years ago? "Then make a verifiable forecast – tell us what's going to happen before it happens and stop this nonsense of telling us how everything that happened was either consistent with or caused by it after the fact," answers Morano. |
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
Now that's a great point Rockwall- "Then make a verifiable forecast". So many times they can't correctly forecast tomorrow's weather but yet can confidently say that AGW is happening and in the end will, as you say, "They really just will do and say whatever they need in order to make it all fit and reassure themselves that every weather event is consistent with global warming."
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
It is SOOOOOOOOOO CUTE the way you all support each other.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yep attack them, don't refute the point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 9, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: Who is attacking? I'm just commending them, and you btw, on a show of solidarity. And what "point"? Another article/study that confirms the bias of one side or the other? Or are you talking about the "Baby! it' still cold in the winter!" point?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Ok more talking about your behavior.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 9, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: Whatever you need to think Danny. As an entertainer, I am at your service.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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