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TonyB2009
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I wouldn't worry, Danny. I have attended a training for stage hypnotists, and I know well most will never step before a spotlight. The guys who are going to do it will do it with or without training. The rest are only dreamers.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2013-11-20 23:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
I have a serious question to ask. It will seem sarcastic but it is not.

How many hypnotists is your goal to put upon the world?


I think a more appropriate question would be "what is your financial goal"

Its about a quick buck...... With no or little regards as to what happens after.
seadog93
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This is an interesting turn.
Are guys saying you don't think Kevin's training is/will be good, or that you don't want more people trained?

Based on the other thread it seemed established that Kevin is a legit Vegas hypnotist who is offering a 5 or 7 day training in stage hypnosis; NGH hypnotherapy certification classes are only 10 days, so it doesn't seem like there isn't enough time.

I hope it's possible to ask this, hopefully get an honest response, and not start a big fight. Unless I'm missing something (which happens more often than not, to be fair!) I don't understand why offering a training is all about a quick buck.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
mindpunisher
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The answer is in the above questions.
seadog93
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Well, I think I can see the opinions about the training, but I don't understand where they are coming from; perhaps there is a back story that I'm not aware of?

I assume that you are in favor of live, in person training. Is that accurate?
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
Mindpro
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 13:49, seadog93 wrote:
This is an interesting turn.
Are guys saying you don't think Kevin's training is/will be good, or that you don't want more people trained?

Based on the other thread it seemed established that Kevin is a legit Vegas hypnotist who is offering a 5 or 7 day training in stage hypnosis; NGH hypnotherapy certification classes are only 10 days, so it doesn't seem like there isn't enough time.

I hope it's possible to ask this, hopefully get an honest response, and not start a big fight. Unless I'm missing something (which happens more often than not, to be fair!) I don't understand why offering a training is all about a quick buck.


Any post here or in any forum in my opinion should be categorized into two receptive categories - 1.) posts and opinions from actual working pros that live and work in this business on a daily basis, and 2.) those that are not professionals- This may include hobbyists, amateurs, arm-chair participants and those that have never done or performed what is being discussed. Those that have viewed a dvd, had some possible or basic success with a basic suggestibility test and somehow believe they're a hypnotist.

One is from the position of experience and the other of theory or opinion. Not based in the real world of application but perceived or thought of application.

Yes, there are some at levels in between the two and yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but information offered always comes from one of these two positions.

Those that are professionals and have been doing this for some time are typically quite put off or even disgusted by wannabe kids coming from youtube, magicians thinking hypnosis is a trick or effect, and the whole new level of "get anyone you can into training to be a hypnotist" because the majority (99%) will never ever use or follow through to ever step on a stage with it.

All of this in many pro or workers opinion discredits the market, created bottom-feeder competition and dilutes the industry. Is it really progressing or moving the industry forward? It doesn't affect the level of these new guys, it affects the levels of the pros, the workers.

Plus any pro will tell you that a book, DVD or weekend seminar will not make you a peer hypnotist or a working hypnotist (shut up TonyB, we know-lol).

This is not a slam against Kevin here. He is legit, and a real worker. I get why he's doing it. It is a bonafied additional source of income for a professional, just as is hypnotherapy. I get it. I myself have been a featured guest at several stage hypnosis training events speaking on my knowledge and materials on the business of stage hypnosis, getting bookings, branding, marketing, markets, tours, etc.

I get why they happen, but I also get why the uninviting reception by many working hypnotists. It creates competition, it creates the bottom level of the industry, and ultimately can have an impact on some level of each of our business.

This coupled with the fact that very few of these new guys do it because they've had a life-long interest and fascination with the art and science of hypnosis. I did, and I know several others that did, but most today come from these new contemporary interests, where they are not interested in everything that it takes to comprise being a true skilled professional, they just want to hurry up and get out to try to hypnotize people. To stick their hands to a table, to impress themselves or friends. To many this is what's wrong with stage hypnosis today. "I just wanna get to the good stuff". It's not about a love or passion, it about the effect.

Many of these weekend seminars create the dream for this. As most of us know few if literally any that will walk away from such events ready to perform, yet they either believe they will or think they are closer than they actually are. It's these misperceptions and the ramifications of this that is bothersome to many.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 14:14, seadog93 wrote:
Well, I think I can see the opinions about the training, but I don't understand where they are coming from; perhaps there is a back story that I'm not aware of?



The backstory is hypnosis and stage hypnosis is openly and blatantly being targeted and marketed to anyone, rather than being kept close within the community. In the 90's several people specifically started targeting disc jockeys and magicians "that you too can be a stage hypnotist and create additional income for your DJ service or magic offerings".

This compared to the days where the only way in was to truly approach a working pro or join the guild, apprentice, mentor, and learn from the foudation up, from within.

Now the at your fingertips, study at home, anyone can do it landscape both diminishes the professionalism, and discredits they legitimacy of the industry to a certain extent. At one recent training I was invited to speak at, the day opened with the question "how did you come to be here". One guy kept seeing the ads in a DJ magazine, another saw a hypnotist training program being pushed at a vendor booth at a magic convention, 75% said they saw it on youtube and think they'd like to learn the tricks to be able to do it, a few because they had seen a hypnotist at high school or their college, and a few medical professionals that thought it would be great continued edcuation for thier practices and applications.

It was actually quite sad compared to the same thing only 15 or twenty years ago at some of Ormond McGills events.

It may be hard for newer guys that are part of this current wave to understand, which again is also part of the problem of which I speak. But since you asked, I thought I'd offer some perspective.

At least this is how it is here in the states, of course the guys from the other side of the pond will likely differ.
Mindpro
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However, one more point, I do agree that live training is always betetr than just reading a book or viewing a dvd that is left up to interpretation. For this reason I do belive these live training events serve a purpose. I also feel it is the live training events' responsibility to put things in the right and proper perspective.

To any successful stage hypnotist, there are three elements that come into play. The understanding, use and application of hypnosis itself, the art of being an entertainer and creating an entertaining performance, and the business of being a stage hypnotist. Neither of the first two result to much without the third.

I also think it's wrong when one person appears to be the master or jack of all trades at theseetraining events. That's why I like to see it being offered in segments by multiple instructors or guest teachers/presenters specializing in their own area of expertise.

Again this is not meant or directed towards Kevin or anyone else. In reality when I'm back home in Vegas I still hope to see Kevin's performance and I do wish him well with his trainings, as I've heard good things so far about it.
seadog93
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Wow, that's amazing background; thank you so much.

I guess I'm one of the people of whom you speak, although I really have had a life long interest in hypnosis so hopefully that's a redeeming factor.
Since I was planning on starting to do shows anyways I will still take the training if the money becomes available, talking with a full time pro for a week can only be good it seems to me.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
Dannydoyle
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I asked a simple question.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 16:08, Dannydoyle wrote:
I asked a simple question.


Yeah lol...


Although I have to agree with Mindpro 100% its exactly the same this side of the pond. At least for me.
kevinuncanny
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Sorry guys, haven't had a chance to respond.

Danny, my goal is to do the training session at most 3 times a year for a maximum of 10 students per class. This makes a potential 30 people year. This is less per year then some people do in one weekend. I limit it because I want the people taking my course to get hands on, one-on0one coaching and practice. Will (the other instructor) and I don't feel that can be provided with over 10 students.

TonyB, you are correct. Some will not use it after they learn it. My first class had 6 students. 5 of them have already done their first event.

Mindpunisher, what is my financial goal? Well, there is a lot more things I could do to make a lot more. For example I could teach the course alone. I don't William Arendell a licensed Social Worker, Addciction Recovery and Family Practice expert who has run clinics and uses hypnosis daily teaches the course with me. One of the first expenses is closing down his practice for those days. Why does he teach it with me? I feel that he can give a far better view of the science and day to day use of hypnosis. Plus, he is also more qualified to teach about what you shouldn't do with hypnosis!

So that is a huge chunck out of the 'financial goal' right there. The reason I started this course is simple: I wanted a course like this when I started and they didn't/don't exist. Thurs-Mon learn with someone who does it nightly in Vegas and has toured around the world doing hypnosis shows before that in a limited class setting.

Next point: It creates competition. Can you imagine any place more competative then Vegas? Yet Anthony Cools has helped me build my theater, Marc Savard has been great to me, Terry Stokes gave me my chance and Michael Johns has been a guide and a big brother to me. The only competition performers have is with themselves and their egos. Do the best show, be unique, be good to work with and there is ALWAYS work.

I put together a course to teach people how to do it, how to be unique and how to build a career. I am also excited because William is one of my best friends, so the fact that we get to do this project together makes it a passion for us (even more so when he brings his wife and my God Daughter along!!!).
kevinuncanny
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And Mindpro: I also think it's wrong when one person appears to be the master or jack of all trades at theseetraining events.

I never claim to be a jack of all trades. Before headlining in Vegas I toured comedy clubs, festivals, colleges, theaters and large corporate events. I claim to be great at doing shows, understanding audience expectations and how to exceed them and how to sell a show into different markets.

Will covers the things I know, but don't feel qualified to teach!
Dannydoyle
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I am a capitalist. Make all the money you can.

I just don't see the point of churning out 30 people a year. Plus the hundreds of others who do it. I mean it has gone from difficult to get training to finding training anywhere you look.

I don't see how it is very good for the art to churn out hypnotists at such a rate. I have no real point and certainly no dog in the fight as I offer nothing. I am just asking questions is all.

Again I don't care how much is made. Go for it everyone. I was just curious the ultimate goal is all.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kevinuncanny
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The goal is to offer the course I never found, real world teachers who could put me on a solid path and to teach it along side my best friend.
mindpunisher
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Give me a bucket Kevin ......... Its about making money. Its got to epidemic proportions in this industry. Fast easy buck... Go for it make as much as you can but don't give us Bs. There are literally dozens and dozens of course around now that you never found.In fact its becoming impossible to avoid them. The industry doesn't need another one.

Its **** for the art good for your bank good for you.
Dannydoyle
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Harsh, but with some truth mp.

I do not wish to speak to why he does it. I leave that to Kevin.

To illustrate a major difference in his course Kevin is s pro currently working in a major market. This puts him in a very different category.

Yes courses are hard to avoid, but ones by guys with that resume not so much.

I do not think the idea of turning out anyone with tuition is a good thing for the art. It does not affect me, but it keeps moving the bottom of the industry further down and I think that is bad in general. It probably makes starting out harder than it used to be ironically enough.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kevinuncanny
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Mindpunisher, sorry you've become so cynical. And no, there are not dozens and dozens of courses offering what I am teaching because there are not dozens and dozens of people who are doing a nightly show. The industry needs as many good trainers and as many good performers as it can get. Every performing field claims to be oversaturated yet the cream rises to the top.

There are less then 5000 stage hypnotists in the U.S. Far less then that doing more then 15 shows a year. There is plenty of work for people who want to be unique, creative, safe and put on a great show. If you are planning on just being another hack, you'll end up barely working.

Will everyone who learns take it to a full time level? No. Does every who wants to learn want it to be a full time living? No. Is there room for more great performers? Yes!

As I said befor Mindpunisher I could make a LOT more money doing the course very differently. I'm not. Will I make money at it? Yes. Would I make as much or more if I just booked a corporate gig that week? Yes. But I am doing this because I want to, I'm passionate about teaching what I've learned and get to do it with my best friend.

That's what makes it worthwhile.
kevinuncanny
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Danny - for the record, I have actually turned down two students. One based on what they have posted on facebook and other because they wanted to learn to 'control' people.
Jesse Lewis
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Kevin thank you for putting access to the course you never had. Yes you will create a little competition but whoopie. Yes you may create some competition but whoopie, Yes you may make some money but whoopie.

While you may do all of those things consider this you are doing what you set out to do and the opinion of others including myself do not matter one bit. the fact is many believe that there are too many hypnotists out there is sad I say bull. I am goingto get raked ovwer the coal for this but there are too many old time "hypnosis in the olden days was so much easier I don't want competition because it makes me think a little and that hurts" hypnotists around.

MY personal truth is that there is no competition execpt myself. I offer premium prodct and people can either pay or not pay. I find higher and higher paying gigs and the market is there nomatter where you are and if it is not do the real work and find it.

I personally did have that training available from Ronning, but these days I do not see a lot of the things you talk about offering in the marketplace or are being offered by people that just do not know. I know all about the financial bennefits and the actual cost of running these trainings and I applaud you on it.

I hope you blow this one out of the park Kevin.

Jesse
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