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Mindpro
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There are less then 5000 stage hypnotists in the U.S.


Yes, exactly that's the point and the problem. When I started there were 14 full-time stage hypnotist working in America. (And no that wasn't fifty years ago)
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 14:47, Mindpro wrote:
Plus any pro will tell you that a book, DVD or weekend seminar will not make you a peer hypnotist or a working hypnotist (shut up TonyB, we know-lol).

Actually, Mindpro, I agree. I was doing shows for quite a while before I would dare offer an opinion in the company of real hypnotists. A single book got me through my first three or four shows, but it was a long time before I had learned enough to consider myself an actual hypnotist.

And Kevin, if five of your six first participants do a show, you are doing something right. Well done.

It is a simple matter to do the maths; ten participants, minus the cost of hiring a hotel, advertising the course, paying instructors, etc. Sure, Kevin will make money. But not serious money. And, of course, it is a few days he won't be gigging. So I believe him when he says this is not a matter of making a quick buck.
kevinuncanny
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I started 18 years ago (give or take) so this is before easy internet searches, etc and I can thing of 10 off the top of my head from back then.

If you have a unique show, are safe and market properly it doesn't matter who else is out there and what they are charging. No one has ever walked out of the Rolls-Royce dealership because Toyotas are cheaper.
Jesse Lewis
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 18:43, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
There are less then 5000 stage hypnotists in the U.S.


Yes, exactly that's the point and the problem. When I started there were 14 full-time stage hypnotist working in America. (And no that wasn't fifty years ago)


I would honestly think there are still less than 200 full timers, most lack marketing knowldge or motivation to be full timers.

Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
insight
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Kevin, keep up the great work. Danny Doyle, it would help if you better understood the market, and how there is a need to innovate, to provide something to the marketplace that is differentiated. Although Danny Doyle may only be concerned about money, I admire the fact that you, Kevin, are creating something that is exciting and better than what others have offered in the past.

Hypnosis is not a steady state art. Like other fields, there must be change. There must be innovation. And there is plenty of opportunity for newcomers in the field to take hypnosis to a new level. This is what Kevin is trying to impact. If Danny Doyle is the microsoft of the hypnosis industry, I would equate Kevin as the Apple of the industry. Keep up the great work, Kevin!

Regards,
Mike
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 18:43, Mindpro wrote:
When I started there were 14 full-time stage hypnotist working in America. (And no that wasn't fifty years ago)


I think you're confusing the number of full-time stage hypnotists in America when you started with the number of stars on the flag back then. Smile
Dannydoyle
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On 2013-11-21 19:34, insight wrote:
Kevin, keep up the great work. Danny Doyle, it would help if you better understood the market, and how there is a need to innovate, to provide something to the marketplace that is differentiated. Although Danny Doyle may only be concerned about money, I admire the fact that you, Kevin, are creating something that is exciting and better than what others have offered in the past.

Hypnosis is not a steady state art. Like other fields, there must be change. There must be innovation. And there is plenty of opportunity for newcomers in the field to take hypnosis to a new level. This is what Kevin is trying to impact. If Danny Doyle is the microsoft of the hypnosis industry, I would equate Kevin as the Apple of the industry. Keep up the great work, Kevin!

Regards,
Mike


Lets try to talk about the same thing. First off I was DEFENDING KEVIN. I said even if his motivation was to make money I am a capitalist and that is ok by me. Why do you drone on as if I was attacking him and say the other nonsense?

I went on to say he was one of the few really working in a great venue to offer a course. Another compliment.

I said that competition did not hurt me. Yet you drone on and attack me for things I never said.

I did say producing at the current rate lowers the bottom level of the art. It is a mathematical fact.

Do you wish to attack me for more thing I never said? Or perhaps back up and figure out who said it? No my guess is you will attack more.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kevinuncanny
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Danny has always been a supporter and a great ear for me to bend. He also, from time to time, asks very direct questions. These questions are never meant in harm or as an attack, but simply to get a direct answer.

I appreciate and thank everyone for all the support!
Dannydoyle
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I would NEVER attack a guy doing his show so regularly if I thought I could get a free ticket or two!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2013-11-21 18:35, kevinuncanny wrote:
Mindpunisher, sorry you've become so cynical. And no, there are not dozens and dozens of courses offering what I am teaching because there are not dozens and dozens of people who are doing a nightly show. The industry needs as many good trainers and as many good performers as it can get. Every performing field claims to be oversaturated yet the cream rises to the top.




Everybody says what they offer is different. The "industry" doesn't need more stage hypnosis trainers. Well maybe the "training industry" But not the hypnosis industry. What you really mean is YOU need the the training element for whatever reasons you say. Although I believe its for the money. I don't think anyone offers training out of the kindness of their heart.

Im sorry I just don't buy it. Ive heard that Bs too many times from others marketing other types of training. Its just over used tired marketing bs.
insight
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Danny, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you have apologized to Kevin in the past, saying "I am sorry if I come across brash about it." I say the same to you.
All I am trying to say is that one must give credit to Kevin for innovating and for pursuing his passion, one that goes beyond just profits. Kevin is putting people over profits, and that is admirable.

Regards,
Mike

Quote:
On 2013-11-21 20:52, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-21 19:34, insight wrote:
Kevin, keep up the great work. Danny Doyle, it would help if you better understood the market, and how there is a need to innovate, to provide something to the marketplace that is differentiated. Although Danny Doyle may only be concerned about money, I admire the fact that you, Kevin, are creating something that is exciting and better than what others have offered in the past.

Hypnosis is not a steady state art. Like other fields, there must be change. There must be innovation. And there is plenty of opportunity for newcomers in the field to take hypnosis to a new level. This is what Kevin is trying to impact. If Danny Doyle is the microsoft of the hypnosis industry, I would equate Kevin as the Apple of the industry. Keep up the great work, Kevin!

Regards,
Mike


Lets try to talk about the same thing. First off I was DEFENDING KEVIN. I said even if his motivation was to make money I am a capitalist and that is ok by me. Why do you drone on as if I was attacking him and say the other nonsense?

I went on to say he was one of the few really working in a great venue to offer a course. Another compliment.

I said that competition did not hurt me. Yet you drone on and attack me for things I never said.

I did say producing at the current rate lowers the bottom level of the art. It is a mathematical fact.

Do you wish to attack me for more thing I never said? Or perhaps back up and figure out who said it? No my guess is you will attack more.
Dannydoyle
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No problem.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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On 2013-11-21 14:14, seadog93 wrote:
Well, I think I can see the opinions about the training, but I don't understand where they are coming from; perhaps there is a back story that I'm not aware of?

I assume that you are in favor of live, in person training. Is that accurate?




Seadog93 asked a basic question trying to understand the "about, why"to betetr understand where some here were coming from. I applaud him for wanting to understand rather than just being one of thos ethat doesn't care and barges forward without concern.

I was simply trying to give him the "backstory" he was seeking to help him to better understand.

None of this was directed at Kevin or his partner, or their training. I too think Kevin's and Marc Savard's trainings are quite legitimate. I also know they aren't making that much money when all is said an done from these events. But I do think they help greatly in the learning process, especially as one component in the overall process. There is only one better way to learn in my opinion and especially when combines when such trainings as these.

I also get the concept of wishing something like this was available years ago when I was beginning my learning and education process. People of the overlook it and only see Vegas as a entertainment and gaming town, but also offers some of the best trainings and education programs available anywhere from those that are at the level where most desire to be. Having been a live training event junkee I've been at dozens of these live events and someday hope to see Kevin's as well.

I was afraid that trying to better explain this to seadog93 would somehow be aimed at Kevin, although it wasn't and was never the intent.
Dannydoyle
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I had a mentor. Something that has vanished from the planet. Never paid a dime for a lesson in magic or hypnosis. But it did take time and dedication which are also a diminishing asset.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
seadog93
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How did you find your mentor?
What the process of becoming a mentee (is that a word?)
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
Mindpro
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Find someone you like and contact them. That's exactly what I did with three of my mentors including the late Ormond McGill. This is also how I myself got into mentoring and coaching was by someone approaching me years ago.

Find someone who you feel is trustworthy, professional and you like their style. You can tell quite a bit by talking or emailing with someone to tell if they know the business and art of entertaining. There are many facets that go into being a good stage hypnosis performer so you must find either the right person that offers all of these together or find several different mentors that each assist you with their areas of specialty.

There are many decent hypnotists that are terrible entertainers. There are some entertainers that may be great at magic for example but terrible at hypnosis. Then there are tons of performers that are terrible at the business aspects of being a stage hypnotist or entertainer.

It should also be based on your personal needs and interests. Invest in yourself.

To me I would put more time and effort into this one on one real world mentoring or coaching training than distance or group training, but that's just me. You may feel differently. We all have our preferred ways of learning. You could also take group training to begin and learn the basics, and then the one on one training/mentoring to really get into the nuts and bolts of things.
seadog93
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Thank you.
In regards to your last point, that's what I was going to ask; do you think that having some prior experience in stage hypnosis is helpful in asking someone to mentor you? For example learning the basics doing a few shows and going from there?

It's interesting that you break things up in terms of entertainment, hypnosis and business. This may be a silly question, apologies for that, but do you think that for example a great entertainer would be the best mentor in that regard even if they don't do stage hypnosis at all? Obviously there is a lot of carry over between forms of live entertainment, but would this apply?

I ask because, while I know a lot of entertainers (none of whom would necessarily agree to mentor me) I know many fewer stage hypnotists (at this point zero).
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
dmkraig
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Seadog, here in the US I've seen a lot of hypnotists who have a LOT of stuff to transport, ranging from PA systems and books for BOR sales to full video studios so they can, within a few minutes, have DVDs of the show to sell to participants and audience members. What you might consider doing is being completely out front: 1) I know some hypnosis. 2) If done some reading and study and practice. 3) I've taken some trainings (if you have). 4) I'd like to study with you and be mentored. In exchange, I'll work free at your shows doing anything you require. By the way, IMO a great way to ADD to your hypnosis training is to watch lots of shows. Every show and every hypnotist is different, and seeing how different situations are handled is a great way to learn more.

Punisher, I partially agree that "The [stage hypnosis] 'industry' doesn't need more stage hypnosis trainers." I think you may be assuming that every person who takes such a training is going to go out on stage and become a hypnotist. That just doesn't happen. I'd say that the vast majority don't do it for a variety of reasons, ranging from stage fright and insecurity to never wanting to be a performer but just wanting to learn what they're doing. So on a strict numbers point of view, I would disagree. However, considering those who will go on to become performers, I would agree that we don't need MORE stage hypnosis trainers, we need BETTER stage hypnosis trainers. This is not to say that any of them (excluding a certain Canadian who gets banned here whenever his nose pops up) are bad--I haven't seen all of them. However, IMO any and all trainers can always improve. It's my position that if you want to do teaching/training of any kind, part of your personal goals should always be to improve.
Mindpro
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We can all learn from great entertainers. I have had the privledge of working with hundreds of great entertainers from all generations from George Burns, Steve Allen and Phyllis Diller to Tom Jones, Billy Joel, Van Halen, Tom Petty and many others. I've literally learned something from each of them about the business and live performing including pacing, timing, stagecraft, audience management and much, much more that never meets the eye.

But what I was reffing to specifically is simply put, most stage hypnotists are not good entertainers. To many the hypnosis can become a crutch since it can be funny itself, which makes many stage hypnosis performers, lazy, lax or simply reliant on just the hypnosis and the responses to it, to be the sole element of entertainment. This makes the stage hypnotist simply the operator or facilitator rather than the entertainer.

I believe there is a great distinction between a "performer" and an "entertainer". A performer is someone who simply performs something such as a magician that simply strings together several tricks and calls it a show. That's not a "show" or entertainment. An entertainer, is an entertainer first without the need or use of anything such as tircks, jokes, hypnosis, an instrument or a song. They ARE the entertainment and these things are just the tools they use to present their entertainment.

With that said, most stage hypnotists are not entertainers. Many justify this by saying "well I allow the on stage volunteers to be the stars of the show or the entertainers", or "a good hypnotist knows to step aside and let the entertainment come from the hypnosis." No, a true stage hypnosis entertainer will entertain before any hypnosis is even brought to the table and any volunteers are on stage. They entertain first and let the hypnosis facilitate that.

Yes, a good entertainer should know how to step aside and let the show and subject progress within the show, but only as part of their (the hypnotist's) overall skillfully controlled and executed show.

As for whether I believe learning some basics and doing a few shows should come before coaching, mentoring or one on one training, no I don't. I don't see anything wrong with learning some of the basics first, or initial training but not even attempting to do shows first. In many ways it works against progress and learning. So many of my coaching students have to break bad habits and we literally have to go back to step one and begin again. Not to mention they typically all have encountered problems which psychologically hurts or impaires their learnability by the time I get with them to assist. They usually had bad experiences, their confidence is shot and they're gun shy in many ways.

Again it's really up to the person and also the preference of the mentor. For example one of the things I do with my students is one or two of them will actually accompany me on one or several of the dates during my Spring tour each year. This is very hands on, real world and they see it all. They see things never even thought of in live training events. They see the road, they see the elements that come into play with each show, they see the behind-the-scenes business operations, they see Murphy's Law at work over and over again and they see how a professional deals with it and has systems in place to minimize and prevent the things that can impair and impact our performances.

I hear it over and over again, that they tell me they learn more from the time they spend with me one on one than they ever could in other forms of training.

With that said I believe in continued education. I am a training junkie as I said earlier. I usually get invited to two or three live seminars or training events per year, either to present, speak as part of the curriculum or just as a guest, and I always do it whenever I can. I've been to most of them, some multiple times. Many times I'm in the very first training event offered by some. There are so many benefits to doing so.
Dannydoyle
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Having training can be the worst thing to show up with looking for a mentor.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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