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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
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On 2013-09-30 14:10, landmark wrote: I wouldn't say anyone who is going through a very tough time, and making the wrong choices a naive idiot - personally speaking...but I get that it was just an analogy...
I've asked to be banned
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12943 Posts |
Perhaps at the time their choice was for their comfort. Sure, later they can say they were ripped off. But at the time they were all for it. Now is the reader to blame?
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Scott Soloff Special user Philadelphia, PA 960 Posts |
Landmark,
I don't think that your analogy applies. The fact is that people do stupid things. Highly educated and successful people do stupid things. An apt example is those that join Scientology. Some really intelligent, well educated and successful people actually join Scientology. We might shake out heads in disbelief, but it happens. And, often. Did the woman that sued McDonald's really not know that the coffee was hot? The woman in the article taken advantage of by the gypsies did not do her due diligence. To add insult to injury, she continued to repeat her mistake. This is common human behavior. But, she is an adult and no one held a gun to her head. The guys on Wall Street stole much more money than this. I don't hear anyone here complaining about that and not one, not one single person was charged or prosecuted. And yet, they're still in business and people still throw money at them. The gypsies (I assume that they're gypsies) are dishonest, con people. But I believe that the ultimate responsibility lies with the woman that was taken advantage of. Best wishes, Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12943 Posts |
Right on Scott.
And furthermore... R you putting money into a 401k? So when the feds stop printing money and your cash turns to mush who ya gonna call? Right now though I bet yer enjoying the ride!! In the words of the legendary Jackie Gleason, How Sweet It Is! J |
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Scott Soloff Special user Philadelphia, PA 960 Posts |
John,
No 401k - it's a sucker's bet with the odds heavily weighted to the house. Best, Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12943 Posts |
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On 2013-09-30 15:24, Scott Soloff wrote: Absolutely, meant for most other posters who feel sorry for client. |
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backinblack Special user 910 Posts |
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On 2013-09-30 14:01, IAIN wrote: barnum statements give no answers neither.. but you did not take them in your book as hey are "too powerfull".. so either your book is powerfull for psychic entertainers and readers or not.. if so you sell powerfull stuff to psychics, right? by the way: I am still curious if you give readings. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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Landmark, Scott, Highly educated people get suckered at Three Card Monte too. I can attest to that . Doesn't mean the people who run the game aren't crooks.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-09-30 14:55, Scott Soloff wrote: This example doesn't really apply, nor was the case as foolish as some people think. The facts were a bit more complex than simply suing because her coffee was too hot and she burned herself. Here's what happened: The woman bought a coffee to go at McDonald's. It was served to her in a Styrofoam cup with a snap-on plastic lid. When she sat in her car she put the coffee between her legs to steady it. The problem was that the coffee was far too hot for the Styrofoam which structurally collapsed causing the nearly boiling liquid to soak her crotch area. She sustained severe burns and required immediate medical care. It was found that the coffee was, in fact, far hotter than is safe to serve in a Styrofoam container. Since then, NO restaurants serve coffee in those kinds of containers anymore. In short- of course the woman knew the coffee was hot. She also had the reasonable expectation that the container it was served in was safe. It wasn't. As to Mrs. Marks, the case was not about whether or not she was a psychic. It was about her obtaining money under false pretenses. She promised that the money would be returned after it was "cleansed." It wasn't. She and her family simply kept it for their own use. A simple case of fraud, theft and/or criminal conversion. |
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
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psychics don't need books on how to give readings, because they are psychic...its a natural unlearnable thing...that's why they call it a GIFT. So someone who is a natural artist or musician should never study art or music. Weird, though, how many do. Perhaps you just have made up an idea about how psychics should be and if they don't fit your model they can't possibly be real. Straw man much? |
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Scott Soloff Special user Philadelphia, PA 960 Posts |
Bob,
I agree. Mrs. Marks committed theft and fraud. No question. And, she should be punished accordingly. However, I still believe that ultimately we are responsible for the choices that we make. My metaphor is imperfect. The coffee was too hot, the container insufficient. But no one in their right mind would stick it between their legs. If it had happened to me, I would have cursed myself, not sued. The people duped by this woman not only made poor choices, but they continued to make them. One half of the equation is definitely criminal behavior. The other half was making poor, ill informed choices. To me, the second party is equally culpable. Best, Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
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Harry the magic man Loyal user Spokane, Washington 270 Posts |
I fully agree with scott and quite well written I might add.
Between the conception
And the creation Between the emotion And the response Falls the Shadow Life is very long- T.S. Eliot "The Hollow Men" |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Apparently, I'm not in my right mind because I often put my coffee between my legs when I'm sitting in a car and putting in the milk and sugar. Never gave it a second though because I don't expect the container to disintegrate.
As to saying the victims were equally culpable in the Marks case- why? It isn't a crime to be naive and gullible. It IS, on the other hand, a crime to exploit those weaknesses in other people. It seems implicit in your post that people who are trusting and naive DESERVE what happens to them. And I don't think you really believe that. Will that be the next defense in criminal trials? "Judge, the guy deserved getting robbed, flashing his money around like that." Or- "She deserved to be assaulted because of the way she was dressed." Or "The guy was stupid for believing me when I lied to him. It's not my fault." Are these victims culpable? Maybe yes, to a minor extent. Equally culpable? Not by a long shot. |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12943 Posts |
Human weakness are exploited all the time Bob. We exploit human weakness as performers. I won't say most but much of sales is based on human weakness. I wouldn't agree that it's technically criminal.
Politics is MOSTLY based on human weakness but THAT is certainly another story. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Of course it is exploited, John. But here I'm talking of exploiting it for explicitly criminal purposes- i.e., stealing peoples' money under completely false pretenses. At least when you buy a car after hearing the sales pitch, you actually get the car. If the salesman just pocketed your money and then never delivered, then you'd have a situation analogous to what happened here.
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Scott Soloff Special user Philadelphia, PA 960 Posts |
Bob,
Your point is well taken. Best wishes, Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
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chrismatt Special user Why would you read any of my 978 Posts |
The weak and vulnerable are preyed upon every day, often by those they trust or learn to trust. How would you feel if the victims here included your elderly grandparents or close relatives?
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But, prosecutors methodically built a case, showing how Marks, her daughters-in-law and even her granddaughter preyed on broken people who came to their storefronts in midtown Manhattan and Fort Lauderdale to deal with tragedies life had handed them. Instead of solace or guidance, they told clients the only way out was to give them money — lots of it — with the promise it would one day be returned. Instead, the psychics amassed a roughly $25 million fortune. But did the fraudulent psychics promise they would return the money or that (in some passive, spiritual sense) the money would be returned? Fake TV preachers have, for years, solicited money with promises that God would reward the generous givers 10-fold. That is significantly different from an explicit promise by the fake to return the money. So, the issue may not be as clear-cut as several of you have posted. The debate is much more interesting if we confine it to fraudulent psychics who take people's money not strictly for entertainment, but in exchange for advice that is purportedly "psychic" and specifically "sold" as such. Issues of free speech, free association and religious freedom, (although there is certainly nothing "free" about the advice) are certainly implicated. Of note, there are still places in which "fortune-telling" is illegal. Concerning the Rose Marks criminal case: Quote:
Other members of the extended family shouted and one threw a Bible in the courtroom, yelling "I hate this Bible … I don't want this Bible anymore." Oh ye of little faith. CM
Details make perfection, but perfection is no detail.
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PhilDean Elite user 445 Posts |
I simply cannot fathom the vile attitude of some of the posters in this thread who are basically saying that it's a victim's own fault that they were victimised. Do you snigger at rape victims and say they deserved it because of the short skirt they were wearing at the time? The fact here is simple. They're snake oil salesmen and they know they're duping people. This is wrong and is in no way the 'fault' of a vunerable person who only seek solutions to their problems. And comparing such a thing to first world complaints like hot cups of coffee and car sales is just thick. Like the bloke who doesn't know the difference between a person claiming to be psychic and psychic entertainment. What a joke!
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Stephen Young Inner circle Thought Illusions 3933 Posts |
This thread is very interesting, and has opened my eyes as I see a side of people I thought I knew, that I wasn't aware of.
As Mr Cassidy has pointed out, psychic considerations aside, it's a case if fraud. We're the victims partly responsible? Yes That's why the career criminal will get around 20 years instead of 200 Anyone who really thinks this family were on trial because of the "psychic" side of their activities is as naive as Marks' victims. |
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backinblack Special user 910 Posts |
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On 2013-09-30 22:29, mastermindreader wrote: people do buy cheap cars for getting an instrument for traveling from point a to b.. people buy expensive cars a little for traveling from a to b and a lot for prestige and want this for a much better feeling.. the least is "stealing peoples' money under completely false pretenses".. but thus is not the most important point.. the most important point is: in the reading market buyers want to buy miracles.. and miracles are produced the way psychics produce them.. from an enlightended point of view this is rubbish, fraud etc.. as well as religion itself (which sets the frame for the believe-market), selling stuff about prestige etc.. the idea to englight people by taking them their freedom of decision ("you go to jail if you are not selling an objective good product") is called repression and not enlightend neither by the way.. => maybe some people get offended by the psychic-market (or tabaco-, marihuana- etc. market) - but the idea of taking peoples freedom by crimilazing the sellers and/or buyers means forcing adults to behave in a way others want them to be.. I guess this is not as you guys right here relly are, right? |
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