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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Hypnosis maximum phenomena (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mindpunisher
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What does compliance actually mean?

according to one dictionary

1.
the act of conforming, acquiescing, or yielding.
2.
a tendency to yield readily to others, especially in a weak and subservient way.
3.
conformity; accordance: in compliance with orders.
4.
cooperation or obedience: Compliance with the law is expected of all.


that's all it means it doesn't explain hypnosis or what happens on stage. Or any phenomena. It means more or less people bending to the will of others. that could be done by putting a gun to someone's head, threatening to harm their family, bribing them with a reward. It only describes the external behaviour and NOT the internal process. Someone with a gun to their head will be having a different and distinctive internal experience to someone who has been offered a large amount of cash. Both could be said to be complying and that we were seeing "compliance".

Whenever we use the word "just" in front of a noun we automatically dismiss it as something we know everything about when in actual fact we don't. Compliance really isn't a static noun its a process a behaviour. Therefore the language you use shapes your perception in a limited way. Hypnosis may be an example of compliance 1e someone or group of people bending some one else's will but doesn't explain the internal process that's driving the behaviour.


Distinctive states of mind happen on a daily basis Tony. Sad, happy, Angry, Fearful, confused are all distinctive states of mind. On stage a person seems to be "amplified" in terms of emotional responses reactions etc. That is a distinctive state if you ask me.

However there are also scientific examples that "prove" that the mind or brain behaves differently with hypnosis which have been covered on here to the point where my eyes bleed reading them.


How do you explain amnesia? Are you saying EVERYBODY and for me that's a large percentage pretends they can't remember anything?

If so I have come across some amazing amateur actors/actresses over the years.

Maybe your just complying with the compliance theorists?
mindpunisher
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That's it Tony is blinded by compliance..And maybe he's just pretending to not know the truth. I think he knows people are hypnotized he just changes it around later....



:)
Anthony Jacquin
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There is no need for a special state to explain amnesia. Pretending is not required either.

The Cognitive Behavioural science is clear. Go between the horns.
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
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Now on Kindle and Audible!
mindpunisher
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Do we actually need to explain it? Can't we just accept and learn how to use it to our advantage? No explanation is the full reality anyway. It will always be just another explanation. What is clear for you may not be clear for someone else.

"special state of mind" its not even clear if we all agree what that means. Some might say "happiness" is a special state of mind while others say its nothing special. What does "special" mean?

That's why there are so many arguments about what hypnosis is and who is right. And when you bring more scientists and more scientific theory and terms in to the arena for me it becomes less clear.

Whatever you see is clear for you in a lot of cases for me all I see is the same thing explained using different words... and the same arguments misunderstandings due to semantics. So who is right? Tony just sees people pretending to be hypnotized.... or pretends to see people pretending if I was to use his logic.


I try and use labels that break things down and simplify things in order to apply what I know to a wider range of things. These labels work for me. But the meanings you attach to them may not be the same. That's where futile arguments start.

Maybe one thing we could all agree upon is everybody won't see everybody else's point of view using words to describe it. And even those that agree with you might be seeing something completely different.

And if that is the case instead of being drawn into futile arguments how can we use it. because that is a major skill every good hypnotist should have.
Scott Soloff
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Hey guys,

A model is a construct that allows you to produce repeatable resutls.

All models are lies...

A useful example is gravity. Present understanding is that gravity is a pulling force. Mathmatical formulas consistently predict what effects gravity may have in any given situation.

But, let's suppose that gravity is a pushing force. The model is different but the effects would be identical. The difference; however, would be that a different, perhaps larger model (context) could explain more phenomena.

Just a thought...

As for the Jews that were persecuted and tortured during WWII... That appears to me to be a case of mass shared psychosis. One might go so far to say cultural hypnosis. Another example would be Joe McCarthy's witch hunt for communists. History is full of such examples.

I think that hypnosis is an altered state. It doesn't matter if you get there by trance or not!

Merely thinking outloud...

Best wishes,


Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
mindpunisher
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In my Model the WWII example would be mass or cultural hypnosis.

I agree all models are constructs. I prefer the ones that free me up in order to apply what I know to a wider variety of applications with greater results.

I believe effective hypnosis is more of an art than a science. So deep scientific research doesn't interest me because I have no use for it. But others with a scientific mind may find it valuable or insightful for whatever reasons.
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2013-10-16 05:59, innercirclewannabe wrote:
I think we misunderstood each other TonyB. When you stated the "workers" - I thought you were referring to the prisoners, many of whom, were made take an active role in the gassing of the innocent Jewish people. This was done under extreme duress and some level of fear too.
Of course, the Nazi soldiers done what they thought was their duty, and it fitted in with their twisted logic that this was a "great deed",they were doing for the Fatherland. There was compliance, mixed in with a sick hatred against other human beings that made them carry out such horrendous murders on a mass scale.

I get your point now.

Just to be clear, I have experienced phenomena that have surprised me, particularly under the gaze of Anthony Jacquin, but also with Justin and with a friend who is a hypnotherapist. However I have never experienced an altered state. I have with meditation, but not with hypnosis. Just saying I have seen no evidence of an altered state, or any need to seek one to get the subjects to do what I tell them. In the absence of evidence I persist in my belief that no such state exists. But I don't say that to start a row, because several people I respect (many on here) have an opposite and equally valid view.
mindpunisher
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What do you think would be valid evidence? How did the training go with Justin?
bobser
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Not only are all models constructed.... EVERYTHING is a construct. That also includes CBT which of course is NOT a science bus Anthony of course was just being giggly?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Anthony Jacquin
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Did I mention CBT? I think you might be seeing things again Bob.
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2013-10-18 21:44, mindpunisher wrote:
What do you think would be valid evidence? How did the training go with Justin?

The training was fantastic. Justin over-delivers. Each day was packed, and went on to well into the evening. I learned plenty, and he has a good way of managing his audience. I learned more about inductions from Anthony Jacquin, but Justin goes into the structure of a show way more, and how to get all the audience on board. I am looking forward to my next show, to put some of the ideas into practice.

As for evidence, I don't know what would be valid evidence, but I reckon I will recognise it if I see it. Hasn't happened yet, though.
mindpunisher
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If you don't know you will never "see it". Glad you enjoyed Justin's training..I'm surprised though I thought Justin was really into inductions in a big way. They take up half his show..
TonyB2009
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His inductions are fun to watch. And everyone does what he says after the inductions. Which is the point, really, whatever their internal state is.
mindpunisher
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Only to a point. If someone does what they are told and faking it then the audience knows its usually obvious. If someone is slow and boring tso will the show be.Getting the biggest reactions or ridiculous responses verbally or through physical responses is an important part of doing shows. (at least to me)Otherwise they would be boring to watch. To get the maximum out of it you need to take into consideration the internal states and compound and amplify them. They way people move and respond and the things they come out with is an external reflection of whats going on inside. The more you can influence or even control to an extent whats going on inside the more you have control over the outcome. Not just with stage but therapy and performance enhancement.

Justin's inductions are really the focus of his shows. And are great to watch. And he is brilliant at them. After which from the videos Ive seen doesn't do that much with the hypnosis. I guess Justin does shows his way with his personality...hes the one that's amplified.
TonyB2009
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Very true about Justin - his inductions are the thing to watch. And his personality fills a room. I think that he is asked to do hour long shows, whereas we go over the hour, which is why we must do a lot more after the inductions. I would love my inductions to be as entertaining has his, though.
mindpunisher
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But that's the point he does very little after the inductions. He takes far too long to get into the show for my taste. Something like 40-45 mins on one video I saw. Its a big build up for little pay off. Its nothing to do with an hour. An hour is a good time to do a full show. A theater type show can do two hours plus. But that's a different structure a lot more complex. He gets away with it because he makes the inductions entertaining plus his big entertaining personality. But he's not the "greatest hypnotist of all time"...anymore than I am the fastest...

But I have a corporate motivational seminar coming up in a few weeks I like the body sways combined with arm levitation. I think these types of demo's without going into full blown hypnosis could be ideal for these types of gigs. The message is more important than the hypnosis although the message is your success is affected by the unconscious programming..

I have just been asked to join a team who among other things advise politician's on how to influence their voters. This is the kind of stuff that really interests me most. I don't know where this will go if anywhere but we shall see.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2013-10-24 18:56, mindpunisher wrote:
But that's the point he does very little after the inductions. He takes far too long to get into the show for my taste...


I would say that the point of hypnosis shows is NOT the hypnosis, it's the entertainment. If you take an hour to hypnotize all of the people on stage and it's presented in a way that enthralls the audience, what's wrong with that? If you take 2 minutes to hypnotize everyone and then bore the audience for the next 58, there's nothing right with that.

Yes, it takes "far too long to get into the show" for YOUR taste. Fine. Don't do a show the way he does. That, IMO, is one of the great things about hypnosis stage work: there are lots of ways to do it.
mindpunisher
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>>>>Yes, it takes "far too long to get into the show" for YOUR taste. Fine. Don't do a show the way he does. That, IMO, is one of the great things about hypnosis stage work: there are lots of ways to do it. <<<<

I think you will find that's what I said. Its not my favorite type of show. Although I do love Justin's patter and the way he interacts with the audience. He is unique and a great showman.
Pakar Ilusi
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Greatest and also most horrible hypnotic phenomena imho...

Killing oneself (and others at the same time) for a 'cause'. Smile

Really.

Ritualistic practices of belief systems using Hypnosis. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
innercirclewannabe
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I was doing some potential media work today and I got chatting with a guy who is " well in" with the movers and shakers of the entertainment world. Anyway, he was telling me that he has come to conclusion that stage hypnosis is 99.9% got to do with compliance. I asked him how can he be so sure, suffice to say, he dropped enough names to suggest to me that the "big names", UK based anyway, would share that same opinion.

Doesn't mean that he is right, but, I thought it an interesting insight into the mindset of the guys making the six figure sums from stage hypnosis.

For me, I am still sitting on the fence on the matter.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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