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Dannydoyle
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Wow lots of jobs going.

I have no problem with them doing it personally. But what of those who claim it is unpatriotic to do such things ? What say you?
Danny Doyle
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R.S.
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Link?


Ron
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Atom3339
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Um, WE, the US, DID bail them out. THEY claimed their allegiance to Detroit. Yet they abandon Detroit and take OUR money to help themselves in Mexico. It's beyond just being unpatriotic.
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mastermindreader
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Are they actually moving all of their production to Mexico, or is this like the Jeep situation that was a big non-issue a few years back and simply involved opening another plant in China in order to build vehicles for the Chinese market?
balducci
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-08......nes.html

Chrysler’s investment will total $164 million to expand production at the engine factory in the town of Ramos Arizpe, one of the people said. Shawn Morgan, a Chrysler spokeswoman, declined to comment.

“Mexico is quite competitive in the automobile industry and we’re going to see more investments like this,” Armando Soto, president of Kaso y Asociados, a Mexico City-based auto industry consulting firm, said in a telephone interview. “This kind of investment helps consolidate a region as an automotive cluster.”

Automakers are expanding production in Mexico to capitalize on lower labor costs that bolster the profitability of vehicles sold in the U.S. market. Chrysler began building the ProMaster, a Ram version of the Fiat Ducato light-commercial vehicle, at a nearby facility in July.

Volkswagen AG (VOW)’s Audi brand is investing $1.3 billion in a new plant in San Jose Chiapa with a capacity of 150,000 cars a year. General Motors Co. (GM) has budgeted $691 million to expand three existing Mexican factories. Fiat also builds the North American version of the 500 subcompact at a plant in Toluca.


http://www.freep.com/article/20131008/BU......ne-plant

Chrysler Group will add about 500 workers at a Mexican engine plant, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said Tuesday.

CEO Sergio Marchionne will provide details later this week when he visits the Saltillo area, where Chrysler has four plants, with Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto, said the people, who asked not to be identified speaking ahead of the announcement.


http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-......can-hemi

In the division of labor that has long governed North American auto manufacturing, the Big Three and other companies typically have built their top moneymakers in the United States, using their Mexican plants to produce smaller, cheaper cars with lower profit margins.

But that division is breaking down. As Mexico cranks out record numbers of vehicles and attracts billions in new investment, Mexican autoworkers are increasingly able to match the skill and productivity of their U.S. counterparts — and at a fraction of the wages.

General Motors is making its iconic Silverado pickup trucks in central Mexico’s Guanajuato state. Cadillac SUVs that retail for $40,000 roll off the assembly line here in the sprawling industrial parks west of Monterrey. Audi has announced that it will put its new $1.3 billion North American plant in the state of Puebla — it will be the first time luxury vehicles will be built in Mexico.

The boom here is bringing worries to U.S. auto workers and unions about the long-term prospects of car manufacturing jobs in the United States, particularly after the $80 billion government bailout of GM and Chrysler. On Mexican assembly lines, wages are often six or seven times as low as in the United States, and new motor cities are rising across central and northern Mexico, fueled by a 50 percent increase in U.S. auto sales since 2009.

“The Mexican worker is a natural craftsman, and global investors are showing their confidence in Mexican labor,” said Alberto Rabago, a union official who started working for Chrysler in 1959 as a floor sweeper when the company made Mexican versions of its DeSoto and Plymouth sedans for the local market.
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Chance Wolf
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:08, mastermindreader wrote:
Are they actually moving all of their production to Mexico, or is this like the Jeep situation that was a big non-issue a few years back and simply involved opening another plant in China in order to build vehicles for the Chinese market?


Yeah...I'm sure that a brand new Chrysler is exactly what the Mexican folks are saving up for.
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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:21, Chance Wolf wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:08, mastermindreader wrote:
Are they actually moving all of their production to Mexico, or is this like the Jeep situation that was a big non-issue a few years back and simply involved opening another plant in China in order to build vehicles for the Chinese market?


Yeah...I'm sure that a brand new Chrysler is exactly what the Mexican folks are saving up for.


I just asked a simple question. Balducci's post answered it for me. Thanks for the snide reply, though. This place wouldn't be the same without a regular does of those.
landmark
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“The Mexican worker is a natural craftsman, and global investors are showing their confidence in Mexican labor,” said Alberto Rabago, a union official who started working for Chrysler in 1959 as a floor sweeper when the company made Mexican versions of its DeSoto and Plymouth sedans for the local market.

Hilarious. The awestruck confidence in Mexican labor and craftsmanship will last right up until they ask for more competitive wages.

Good old NAFTA, making the world safe for capitalist investment at American workers' expense.
motown
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On 2013-10-12 10:54, Atom3339 wrote:
Um, WE, the US, DID bail them out. THEY claimed their allegiance to Detroit. Yet they abandon Detroit and take OUR money to help themselves in Mexico. It's beyond just being unpatriotic.
the Banks, Investment firms and Mortgage Companies were all bailed out too. The ones responsible for where the economy is today. All sorts of corporations have production outside the US. Nothing new there. Chrysler moved jobs into Detroit recently.
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motown
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:21, Chance Wolf wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:08, mastermindreader wrote:
Are they actually moving all of their production to Mexico, or is this like the Jeep situation that was a big non-issue a few years back and simply involved opening another plant in China in order to build vehicles for the Chinese market?


Yeah...I'm sure that a brand new Chrysler is exactly what the Mexican folks are saving up for.
That's just dumb.
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Michael Baker
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:39, motown wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-12 10:54, Atom3339 wrote:
Um, WE, the US, DID bail them out. THEY claimed their allegiance to Detroit. Yet they abandon Detroit and take OUR money to help themselves in Mexico. It's beyond just being unpatriotic.
the Banks, Investment firms and Mortgage Companies were all bailed out too. The ones responsible for where the economy is today. All sorts of corporations have production outside the US. Nothing new there. Chrysler moved jobs into Detroit recently.



Let 'em go. Maybe we could convince the Banks, Investment firms and Mortgage Companies to also move their operations to Mexico (or anywhere for that matter). Perhaps if we just wash our hands of the idiot institutions that are consistently fv##ing things up, maybe the intelligent, responsible folks can make something of this country. Smile
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Slide
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Big business is global, it isn't the puppet of any specific country. It is the puppet of its share holders. There is no "national pride" in large business, (unless they are trying to snow the local inhabitants of whatever burg they want something from), there is only profit and return on investment. If labor is cheaper in Mexico, that is where it is going.
LobowolfXXX
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And yet some big businesses remain in the U.S.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:31, landmark wrote:
Quote:
“The Mexican worker is a natural craftsman, and global investors are showing their confidence in Mexican labor,” said Alberto Rabago, a union official who started working for Chrysler in 1959 as a floor sweeper when the company made Mexican versions of its DeSoto and Plymouth sedans for the local market.

Hilarious. The awestruck confidence in Mexican labor and craftsmanship will last right up until they ask for more competitive wages.

Good old NAFTA, making the world safe for capitalist investment at American workers' expense.




Gotta say that the criticism around here is that NAFTA enriches American corporations at the expense of Canadian workers.

Don't know if either of these sentiments is supported by facts.
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Al Angello
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Cars they import to Mexico are stripped down versions of cars made elsewhere so I don't think there is a big Chrysler market in Mexico.
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landmark
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 12:23, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:31, landmark wrote:
Quote:
“The Mexican worker is a natural craftsman, and global investors are showing their confidence in Mexican labor,” said Alberto Rabago, a union official who started working for Chrysler in 1959 as a floor sweeper when the company made Mexican versions of its DeSoto and Plymouth sedans for the local market.

Hilarious. The awestruck confidence in Mexican labor and craftsmanship will last right up until they ask for more competitive wages.

Good old NAFTA, making the world safe for capitalist investment at American workers' expense.




Gotta say that the criticism around here is that NAFTA enriches American corporations at the expense of Canadian workers.

Don't know if either of these sentiments is supported by facts.

Yes, exactly. Just to be clear: it enriches American corporations, not American, Canadian, or Mexican workers.

As to the facts, one has only to look at the stagnant American wages versus the record corporation profits. It's not that complicated.
LobowolfXXX
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What about the wages of the Mexican workers employed at the expanded plant vs. if the plant hadn't expanded there? Not a rhetorical question.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Chance Wolf
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:27, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:21, Chance Wolf wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-12 11:08, mastermindreader wrote:
Are they actually moving all of their production to Mexico, or is this like the Jeep situation that was a big non-issue a few years back and simply involved opening another plant in China in order to build vehicles for the Chinese market?


Yeah...I'm sure that a brand new Chrysler is exactly what the Mexican folks are saving up for.


I just asked a simple question. Balducci's post answered it for me. Thanks for the snide reply, though. This place wouldn't be the same without a regular does of those.


It was a joke.

Man...you gotta lighten up a bit.
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2013-10-12 12:13, Slide wrote:
Big business is global, it isn't the puppet of any specific country. It is the puppet of its share holders. There is no "national pride" in large business, (unless they are trying to snow the local inhabitants of whatever burg they want something from), there is only profit and return on investment. If labor is cheaper in Mexico, that is where it is going.


I am with ya 100% here. If taxes and labor are cheaper why not move?

But by the same token why use union labor when non union labor is cheaper? Why not follow this logic all the way out?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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On 2013-10-12 12:54, LobowolfXXX wrote:
What about the wages of the Mexican workers employed at the expanded plant vs. if the plant hadn't expanded there? Not a rhetorical question.

I'm not sure. What do you think?

FWIW, the unemployment rate in Mexico is apparently significantly lower than it is in the U.S.

Image


From what I've read, it seems that wages in Mexico are typically lower than what they are in the United States. So I guess it would make some sense if jobs were flowing to the former.

Maybe the wage is still the same as it was before, just more jobs at that same wage level are being made available?

Okay, I did a bit of quick research just now ... here is one point of view about the effect on wages in Mexico:

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/10/me......-workers

Rodolfo Cruz-Piñeiro, a professor and researcher in population studies at El Colegio de la Frontera Norte in Tijuana, says that while new manufacturing plants are sprouting up frequently in the northern border region, that trend hasn’t translated to higher wages.

“The quality of life in general is not so good,” Cruz-Piñeiro said. “The improvement for the workers is very marginal when compared to the macro-economic indicators. In terms of wages per hour … it hasn’t improved.”
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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