I just got star language and its very well thought out but I wonder how easy it will be to memorize and keep it all in my head permanently. Is astrolinua better and or easier to memorize? Also is astrolingua also purely verbal and impromptu as I heard there is on out and I don't want to use physical outs that I have to produce.

Playzure

Don't you mean sign language?

Anyway, Sign Language lets you always arrive at the spectators star sign, while Astrolingua mainly brings you to two signs and you have to be slightly equivocal to get the right one.

Sign Language is a lot more 'wordy', while Astrolingua is more 'symbolic' in the way people are told to think about their sign.

None of these things are any harder or easier to remember in my opinion. You should bother to memorize this stuff; it's always useful. You can always have a crib handy for a quick refresh before you start.

Practice with people you know while speaking on the phone, with the cheat card at hand. Not ideal, but you'll learn it really quickly.

Once you've done it several times with people on the phone, you'll remember it.

I consider Sign Language to be leaps ahead of Astrolingua.

I don't have Astrolinga, but Sign Language is strongly recommended!!
Doug Dyment has done superb work on this.

Sven

Doug's version is considered the State of the art for this effect.

I saw recently a manuscript which is supposedly a working companion for these 'What's your sign?' methods.

Has anyone heard anything about it?

I believe it is called Zodiac Words or Zodiac Keys, something like that....

It is fantastic but unfortunately it is sold out. I got the last copy. Sorry.

Bill

Alain Nu has a nice version called Zodiattack. It’s in Mystery School (p.351) or he sells it by itself at his lectures.

Bill,

Can you tell me more about this product?

Many thanks

PSImon

PS If it is sold out I'd be interested in picking up a 2nd hand copy if anyone wishes to sell.... If it is a good product.

There are other version in print for guessing soneone's Zodiac sign
Kurts and Waters comes to mind.
Bob Farmer was the first to think of the general notion.

I thought it was Ray Grismer (regardless of what it says in Mind, Myth & Magick) ?

Can someone please clarify ?

Besides, Waters, Jakutsch, Nu, Rayot, Marc Paul & Doug Dyments work on this, can anyone provide specific sources for study of this effect?

I am particularly seeking references to (but not exclusively) that of Ray Grismer, Phil Goldstein, Bob Farmer, Stewart James, Paul Ingram and Sam Schwartz.

Oh and a list of other effects/sources for branching anagrams would be nice too...

PSI-Kick, you are thinking of a manuscript called Zodiac Key Words. Only 50 were printed and all have been sold.

Guilty! I started the progressive anagram/astrological sign craze. Ray Grismer did not.

Schwartz (along with Karl Fulves) turned the effect into a nice book test, but "The Hidden Force" does require a prop.

There are a couple of big errors in Astrolingua.

Cancer is on the wrong branch of the tree for a start. Also one of the qualifying questions for another sign could easily be misinterpreted by the subject leading you to the wrong one.

There are intesting elements in Astrolingua that have definite merit and will give you ideas, but as a fully tried-and-tested routine it comes up short, IMO.

Do yourself a favour and stick with Sign Language.

Cheers.

Dave

Thanks, Bob, for the clarification

A small subversive thought: are starsigns still that topical?

I mean in the '70's you couldn't move for people asking your "what's your sign", but now, outside of psychic fair and the like...

Now if I could define which football team you supported without writing it down, that would be something wouldn't it? (Hint, hint.)

Doug

I think, in our artform, signs are still topical. You're talking about something that is extremely personal (their birth date), something that nearly everyone has looked into at least once or twice (reading their horoscope) and something that is classically "psychic" related.

I know where you're coming from, as Astrology seems to have moved to the back burner as far as fortune-telling and constant conversation (being replaced, as far as I can tell, with Tarot which is all the rage 'round here), but I don't think it's anywhere near the "cliché" or "outdated" category.

E

History of "What's My Sign?

By Bob Farmer

In January of 1986, I came up with an effect called, “Fate Accompli”. It had several different elements, one of which was the use of a progressive anagram to determine a spectator’s astrological sign. I sent this off to Max Maven, and he mentioned it to T. A. Waters.

T.A. published his version, “Signse” in New Invocation, No. 39, June 1987 (later republished in MIND, MYTH AND MAGIC (pp. 460-462), crediting me with the original idea.

In a 1987 letter to me, T.A. explained his publication of the idea as follows:

“The reason I put ‘Signse’ into INVOCATION — something I had originally not intended to do — is that one of the people I showed it to was Ray Grismer, sometime more than a year ago. This past January I saw it advertised under his name in the Hades Newsletter. I don’t think Ray intentionally lifted it---just forgot where he had seen it--—but I did want to set the record straight and give credit to you for the inspiration.”

Steve Banachek sent me a very interesting version in 1996 (and posted my e-mail on the origins to the PEA newsgroup).

Incidentally, Alain Nu has a completely different (and very clever) method for nailing the sign. See his “Zodiesque.”

I also invented “Hippity Hoppity Wrabbity Wrabbit Run,” but have never received credit.