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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Criss Angel,on Spike TV...'Believe' (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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I don't think there's ever really been much of that kind of nostalgia about mentalism. As I wrote in the introduction to my "Fundamentals" (pay particular attention to the next to last paragraph):

Quote:
To understand the art of mentalism and many of the debates that surround it today, nothing is more illuminating than a brief review of its early history. As a performing art, modern mentalism evolved during the period spanning the latter half of the nineteenth century through the early years of the twentieth. It was a theatrical response to the public’s fascination with Spiritualism, Theosophy, hypnotism and early psychical research.

The first “mentalists” did not have conjuring backgrounds, although they did, unquestionably, make use of sleight of hand, gimmickry and misdirection to accomplish their feats. Without exception, however, all claimed to possess – either explicitly or implicitly – genuine paranormal abilities. All were subject to attacks and exposures by magicians and skeptics and, as a result, many careers were short lived. Only a select few were able to survive the onslaughts and controversy to enjoy successful careers as public performers.

A Few Members of the Original Cast of Characters


Anna Eva Fay

In the mid 1870’s, Anna Eva Fay had established herself as a stage medium. Her most famous feat was a spirit cabinet routine she called “The Cotton Bandage Test.” (The feat is still performed today, most notably by “Falkenstein and Willard”.) Later, she added a question answering routine utilizing waxed pads to obtain secret impressions of spectators’ written queries.

In 1875 she hired Washington Irving Bishop to be her manager. In 1876, Bishop wrote a complete expose of Fay’s act and began his own career as a mentalist. His performances included an expose of Fay’s “fraudulent” tests and, later, demonstrations of his own “genuine” thought reading abilities.

In 1889 she publicly mocked Bishop in the press.


John Randall Brown

In 1872, as a reporter assigned to covering séances, Brown invented the thought reading technique now known as muscle reading. (Based on detecting what is now referred to as ‘Involuntary Muscle Response’, or ‘IMR’.) Taking to the stage, he billed himself as ‘The First and Original Thought Reader’ and began a successful career in mentalism.

In 1877 he taught his technique to Washington Irving Bishop.


Washington Irving Bishop

In 1877, after learning muscle reading from Brown, Bishop added it to his act and became the most successful practitioner of the technique. He went to England where he billed himself as ‘The First and Original Thought Reader’ and drew the attention of the magician John Neville Maskelyne, one of the first of the magician/exposers to attack stage mentalists.


Samri S. Baldwin and John Neville Maskelyne

Bishop, hastily leaving England to avoid the enforcement of a court judgment obtained against him by Maskelyne, returned to the United States. Brown, in the meantime, was no longer calling himself ‘The First and Original Thought Reader” but, instead, had become ‘The First and Original White Mahatma’ (in response, apparently, to the growing popularity of Madame Blavatsky’s Theosophical movement.)

Unfortunately, the title was already in use by Samri S. Baldwin, the apparent originator of the one-ahead system, who responded by calling himself “The REAL and Only Original White Mahatma”.



And that is basically the way it was. They claimed to possess real paranormal abilities, while attacking and exposing the competition and stealing each others billings. In the meantime, they defended themselves against, or did their best to avoid, attacks against themselves by magicians and skeptics.

Not much has changed.
David Thiel
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Quote:
On 2013-11-04 00:35, landmark wrote:
Quote:
The community, the brotherhood is not united anymore, it's about ME and individual gain, perception and ego. It's no longer about what's best for the art or bigger picture, it's about personal gain.

My reading of the history is that there was never a Golden Altruistic Age, and it was almost always about individual gain. Just saying...not approving, but not surprised or shocked either.


I agree and I don't agree.

I got hooked on magic when I first saw the invisib*e deck, performed by a street entertainer. I was in my late 20's...but I was blown away by it. I had NO idea how he'd known which card would be chosen by a spectator who wasn't even LOOKING at a real card. I went back three days in a row to watch this same guy do the effect with three different people...and saw my theories shot down one at a time. No stooge. No 52 decks of cards...nada.

In the olden days there was no internet -- so I wound up at a magic shop. I described the effect to the owner of the shop and asked him if he knew what I was talking about. He nodded and I asked him to sell me the trick. He refused because he didn't feel I "deserved" the effect. It wasn't salesmanship...he took it seriously. You think that didn't make an impression on me?

To make a long story shorter -- Willard, the shop owner, later became my mentor. I carried his props, set his sound systems etc...and, while he never paid me, he always taught me something. The day he gave me my first Invisib*e Deck is a day I still remember. When he showed me the secret, I was blown away. But I felt I'd been let in on something...well...magical...that I'd really worked for.

After one of his shows on a snowy afternoon we were talking about exposure. He told me that magicians, as a group, were the biggest jerks he'd ever met. He included himself -- and me -- in that list. But he also told me that magicians were smart jerks -- that the REASON they didn't give away secrets was because if people knew how it was done, then everyone would be calling themselves a "magician." No one would be hiring magicians anymore. He explained that not revealing secrets was purely a matter of selfish self-preservation -- which is why he felt the guys who exposed secrets to make themselves look smart were literally beneath contempt.

You think I don't value the secrets of the trade above all things? Absolutely I do.

I've never actually felt that magic was a "brotherhood" -- all posturing aside. But at least in those days, anyone who betrayed secrets was vilified and broadly despised by the community. There was no internet...and there were no 16 year old YouTube gurus or armchair Criss Angelites who reveal "secrets" on national television. It's like being in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean with someone who insists on drilling holes in the wood. It makes no sense. The momentary blip of acceptance these guys win by exposing secrets is far outweighed by the ugly death of a mystery and the stain it puts on EVERYONE involved in mystery performance.

So, while I agree that there was never really a "golden age" (in my experience anyway)of magic -- there WAS a code that most of us lived by. You don't tell how it's done. Period. But the world is bigger and communication is instant. One kid (or self-important jerk Vegas magician, for that matter) can drag a beautiful secret into the light and an instant later it's exposed to tens of thousands of other people and it dies there. It sucks. Every time.

There's no way to stop it. And that leaves me feeling like a really old guy railing against a "stampede of stupid."

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.

My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
tmoca
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"stampede of stupid."

That my friend is the phrase of the century...lol...
MagicBarMan
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Got a gripe with the new show. Although it is a retread of "Mindfreak" he has added something that is less than palatable. He is now revealing how some tricks are done. Does Criss Angel not remember one of the main tenants of magic, "don't tell how the trick is done". I am sure in his expert mind he feels like the things he is teaching/giving away to a national audience are trivial knowledge. I don't believe this is a way to perpetuate the art or entertain people. Even as simple as some of the things he teaches are, someone else still put the effort into thinking up the idea. He is doing a disservice to those who took a simple idea and made it into a miracle. On top of that he dedicates a small portion of his air time to pitching one of his marketed tricks that also airs during commercial breaks. I don't see him giving away the secret to those things. He'll charge you $10.00 to learn something of his but he will just haphazardly give away someone else's idea? I know many of his viewers won't realize it but in my humble opinion he is diminishing the art by doing this. If he wants to be the Masked Magician that is fine but please put the mask on already........
Godzilla
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Not,sure...but,Criss is doing many of the effects,revealed by the'Masked Magician'!
Is that,where he learned them ? Smile
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
Rodney Palmer
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I really had a lot of Respect for Banachek before doing this New Show w/Criss Angel. I never thought that Banachek would work with Criss again as they had a falling out during his tenure on Mindfreak. He told us during a Lecture that he could not go into details about the Mindfreak situation. All he could say was that he no longer worked for Criss and left it at that. And then to hear he was back with Criss doing a New Show is just ludicrous on his part. Is Banachek that hard up for money that he has to stoop this low. Before this show he was in my opinion a well respected Mentalist. Now it seems that he is on the show and not really doing much at all and seems to be losing his credibility especially with the Raising from the Dead episode that recently aired. Although in that particular episode Banachek only was shown in the beginning and was never shown on Camera during the demonstration as that would have gone against all that he has de-bunked over the years. Why is Banachek stooping so low? Hopefully he can regain my respect but it will take some time as he is selling out so to say.

Rod
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In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person.
Randwill
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As I was saying in the other thread about this topic, Banachek is getting his face on television. Though not always supported by evidence, people have the perception that if you are on television, you must be very good at what you do and that you are worth more money. Having this television show on his resume will put more money in his bank account. It has nothing to do with credibility or respect. It's show BUSINESS.
truemagic
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Quote:
On 2013-10-24 12:23, M Sini wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-22 18:14, truemagic wrote:
Looks like history repeating itself. With all the posts by magicians seemingly hating on his new TV series-- looks like Criss has another hit on his hands.


Only around 900,000 viewers for the premiere episode and not enough to even register in the top 100 cable shows on Tuesday this week. Far from a hit...


Guess you may have been too hasty and used a rating source not used by networks.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/en......e-654154
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2013-11-07 09:18, Randwill wrote:
As I was saying in the other thread about this topic, Banachek is getting his face on television. Though not always supported by evidence, people have the perception that if you are on television, you must be very good at what you do and that you are worth more money. Having this television show on his resume will put more money in his bank account. It has nothing to do with credibility or respect. It's show BUSINESS.


Getting on tv at any cost - yeah more money that's what all of this is about at the end of the day. No one really has principles its about making money. As soon as you guys get rid of your delusions about looking after the "art" realize everyone is in this for themselves. When someone sells you a product they do so to make money not further the art. You are kidding yourself if you think anything different.
M Sini
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Quote:
On 2013-11-08 02:10, truemagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-24 12:23, M Sini wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-22 18:14, truemagic wrote:
Looks like history repeating itself. With all the posts by magicians seemingly hating on his new TV series-- looks like Criss has another hit on his hands.


Only around 900,000 viewers for the premiere episode and not enough to even register in the top 100 cable shows on Tuesday this week. Far from a hit...


Guess you may have been too hasty and used a rating source not used by networks.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/en......e-654154


Actually I was referring to the Neilsen Ratings (the article you linked doesn't state how it recieved it's figures). It may very well have been in the Top 10 in its timeslot (for people ages 18-49) on cable on it's opening night (which the article you linked is stating), but since then it hasn't been in the Top 100 cable shows on Tuesdays.
truemagic
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Quote:
On 2013-11-08 07:44, M Sini wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 02:10, truemagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-24 12:23, M Sini wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-10-22 18:14, truemagic wrote:
Looks like history repeating itself. With all the posts by magicians seemingly hating on his new TV series-- looks like Criss has another hit on his hands.




Only around 900,000 viewers for the premiere episode and not enough to even register in the top 100 cable shows on Tuesday this week. Far from a hit...


Guess you may have been too hasty and used a rating source not used by networks.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/en......e-654154


Actually I was referring to the Neilsen Ratings (the article you linked doesn't state how it recieved it's figures). It may very well have been in the Top 10 in its timeslot (for people ages 18-49) on cable on it's opening night (which the article you linked is stating), but since then it hasn't been in the Top 100 cable shows on Tuesdays.


Appreciate you being interested enough in Criss to find out the ratings each week since it began to air. Apparently though Spike and Endemol feel it enough of a hit with value and numbers to back it to strike a deal to air internationally. Since you believe you are an authority on this and your opinion matters perhaps you should keep magic as a hobby and run your own network?!
IAIN
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We have a mole connected to the show, posting!
I've asked to be banned
Godzilla
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On 2013-11-08 16:13, IAIN wrote:
We have a mole connected to the show, posting!


LOL
Your post made me think of,Austin Powers! Moley,Moley,Moley...

And,he did create ll post,to be here !

Magic...class (Troll Human) Smile

Is that you,Criss ?
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
truemagic
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On 2013-11-08 16:13, IAIN wrote:
We have a mole connected to the show, posting!


And then there is you... a MOLlycoddle connected to nothing.
truemagic
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Quote:
On 2013-11-08 16:48, Godzilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 16:13, IAIN wrote:
We have a mole connected to the show, posting!


LOL
Your post made me think of,Austin Powers! Moley,Moley,Moley...

And,he did create ll post,to be here !

Magic...class (Troll Human) Smile

Is that you,Criss ?


Yes--- you guessed it and are way too smart. Can tell by the movies you watch.
IAIN
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Quote:
On 2013-11-08 16:59, truemagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 16:13, IAIN wrote:
We have a mole connected to the show, posting!


And then there is you... a MOLlycoddle connected to nothing.


you sir, are a pantywaist!
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IAIN
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Anyway - can you report back to Crissssssssss, that we are not impressed with his completely unneeded reveal-o-matic ways... I'm sure with his team he could put together a decent series without the exposure side...its an easy way out to gain the wrong sort of attention...
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Godzilla
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Quote:
On 2013-11-08 17:03, truemagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 16:48, Godzilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 16:13, IAIN wrote:
We have a mole connected to the show, posting!


LOL
Your post made me think of,Austin Powers! Moley,Moley,Moley...

And,he did create ll post,to be here !

Magic...class (Troll Human) Smile

Is that you,Criss ?


Yes--- you guessed it and are way too smart. Can tell by the movies you watch.


LOL
They made big money,for doing "CRAP" too...
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
truemagic
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Quote:
On 2013-11-08 17:07, IAIN wrote:
Anyway - can you report back to Crissssssssss, that we are not impressed with his completely unneeded reveal-o-matic ways... I'm sure with his team he could put together a decent series without the exposure side...its an easy way out to gain the wrong sort of attention...


Iainnnnnnnnnnn-- don't think he is out trying to impress or get approval from you or the magic community. BTW, I'm not a messenger-- tell him yourself.
IAIN
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Oh I'm sure he isn't... he's out to keep his name out there, and to make money...

the single-mindedness needed to do that is admirable, I think we're just saying (generally) that him using reveals is to his (and his team's) detriment...as well as magic in general...

I would see the challenge as this - if someone is truly that good and creative - then you don't need the exposure element to grab people's attention...
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