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Powermagic
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Thanks guys. I was not really looking for theory or opinions on why so many buy the exact same illusions. I was saying I was bored of seeing it and wanted to see someone who is trying to be orignal rather than do what many magicians do, they see it, they see the reaction, they want it, they buy it. That is the easy road. I am not saying I have never done it. But it is constantly on my mind- do I want to do a trick as my competiton.
So while I can go with many of your thoughts, that was not my point.
I just want to see some shows that are not using the same old, (and new) stuff. Smile
Kevin Ridgeway
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I'm not trying to be rude here...but if one views other magicians as their competition, then they are being short sighted and not setting themselves apart, not as a magician but as entertainment in general. And that truly has NOTHING to do with what you perform, but more to do with HOW & WHY you perform.

Just my opinion and experience.
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DavidThomas
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Kevin, I agree. If a magician is trying to be "top" in the field, then there is a reason to be different and a need to create. Personally I have no interest in this. There are 100's of us that are performing day in and day out to audiences that have never seen a live magic show. I do respect and thank the creators in our field!!!
David Thomas
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wanmagic
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David right on. Your general audience and clients I.E. those that pay you don't live and breath magic. To them if you are entertaining and have a good production it's a great show period. The trick is only a fraction of the whole performance. Really it doesn't matter how many different ways you vanish, cut in half, change, walk through something, or appear it is all the same ball game. The only people it matters to is magicians and they aren't paying your bills.
tristanmagic
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A lot of illusionists perform their own illusions.

In the US you have, apart from the top players like Copperfield and Penn & Teller, people like Kevin James who only does his own material or Nathan Burton who has some original stuff or Ed Alonzo.

In Europe you have Peter Marvey & Rafael who create their own material.

Also the Ehrlich Brothers & Dani Lary have original stuff but they also perform rip-off's...
tristanmagic
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Forgot to mention Topas, who uses his own unique presentation to existing effects & has created some original illusions as well
Powermagic
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Right, but some seem to think that they don't reach same people so they all buy the same illusions. You can paint a different color or change the framing a little but that is not a "twist" .

I can understand your statement about competition. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck.
To quote Pete Mennie from an article in Vanish 10,
"When a client hires a magician, they are purchasing a magic show. A time filler. The specifics of the ‘show’ don’t matter. In the eyes of the client and the audience, it’s just ‘tricks’. That’s the product and the product is assumed to be of a certain quality otherwise it would be offered for ‘sale’."

While I could debate that as well, I feel it is more of the reality of many. Unless the client sees your entire show elsewhere, they are comparing apples to apples in their minds. While I understand your point is to stand above, if there are two that cut the lady in half, they most likely, care about it being a twist on the same version another guy is doing.

I am fully aware why many do the same illusions- availability and cost. The illusion if for sale and they can afford it. They can see how many shows it will take to pay it off. Or they buy plans (availability) and build it themselves. (affordability) . They also have seen the illusion performed and were fooled initially and saw the reaction. More magic is sold at conventions when they see it performed either in the show the night before or at a lecture. They see the reactions so want that same response.

I don't blame anyone for doing it but then make the point they will not stand out above the rest. And yes, if you must have what everyone else is doing, you should twist it, should "make it your own. (just don't kid yourself that the actual illusion is any different from the guy that does it as it comes out of the packing crate).

So that is why I posed the question of who was taking to that next level with stuff they create or have made for them but it is not for sale.


Quote:
On 2013-10-30 22:29, Kevin Ridgeway wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude here...but if one views other magicians as their competition, then they are being short sighted and not setting themselves apart, not as a magician but as entertainment in general. And that truly has NOTHING to do with what you perform, but more to do with HOW & WHY you perform.

Just my opinion and experience.
Bill Hegbli
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Magicians doing totally different illusions then the common magician.

David Copperfield
Franz Harary

There are others but their names escapes me. Who is the guy that penetrates a 12x12 board in a enclosed glass structure.

Do to magic dealers that want to flood the market with magic tricks and illusions, we have a lot of magicians doing the same illusions. In earlier times there were only a handful of magicians, all doing their own magic acts. That is how it should be, but do to population growth, and capitalism, and a desire to perform magic, we have an abundance of performers.

It is not really the magician's fault but the lack of creativity in the magic industry. There has not been a small scale stage trick in generations. Then it is also not an issue of coping, but a desire on the individual person wanting to do exactly what he sees. Not to take anything away from the original performer, but to be able to do the same trick. Even if their were an abundance of illusions, they would still be doing the same illusions for just that reason.

There is hundreds of illusions not be shown from yesteryear, Many could use a new facelift of course. Look at all the Thayer, Owens, Abbott's illusions that no one touches. Why, the usual excuse is that it is old, when in fact, the illusions they are doing are old as well. Just depends on what one calls old. Old today is anything over 3 months of existence.
yadlig
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Original Illusions created and performed by David Copperfield....0

Rank / Position in industry......#1.

Just thinking out loud on the subject.
RNK
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Quote:
My goal isn't to be the next David Copperfield (although it was when I was a kid). Now I just want to reach as many people with the gospel of Jesus as possible - and my show is my method for doing that. Smile


This is great! May God Bless you on your journey Matt!

RNK
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On 2013-11-18 12:29, yadlig wrote:
Original Illusions created and performed by David Copperfield....0

Rank / Position in industry......#1.

Just thinking out loud on the subject.


And your point is? David Copperfield performs mostly all original material. I did not say he created original material. You make a good point though. In a capitalists society, when a person thinks of an idea and ask others to create something, then hires and pays for it to be manufactured and created, and holds exclusive rights to that creation. Do we credit the person or team that made it come to fruition or the person who paid for it.

Today in the electronics industry, new inventions are constantly being created, but the man who actually invented the computer processor is not hailed as the inventor. Intel Corporation takes all the credit for inventing the processor. Most companies believe if you invent something while you are working for that company, then anything you invent belongs to them. It is usually in the very small print in the hiring policy.
Murray Hatfield
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As I read these posts a few things come to mind;

First - most of the top names in the entertainment world do not create everything that they perform. Actors, guided by a director, perform scripts written by others. Singers and bands often have hits with music and lyrics written by others. Dancers are choreographed and directed, even many comedians pay for jokes that are written by others. There are exceptions but there are many, many performers and artists who perform the works of others.

Secondly, even David Copperfield performed Origami, Walking Thru a Mirror, Things go Bump in the Night/Million Dollar Mystery, Pole Levitation and the Water Levitation, many years after these illusions were created for and performed on television by Doug Henning. While David and his team have created some stunning original illusions, he has also performed classics like The Ashra Levitation, Twister, Modern Cabinet, Zig Zag, Metamorphosis, Duck Bucket, Backstage with a Magician, Linking Rings, Dancing Hanky, Floating Silver Ball, Cut and Restored Rope, and more.

In my own circumstance with producing a new 2 hour show each year for the last 25 years, for my annual Canadian tour, I put a great deal of time and effort into both creating original routines and illusions as well as purchasing props from most of the finest creators and builders in the world. The problem is that even though, to the best of my knowledge, I had the very first Origami, Mini Kub Zag, Pole Levitation, Kalin's Fire Spiker, Interlude, Death Drop, Split Press, Suspended Animation, Bits 'n Pieces, Swords and Shields, Twin Penetration, Compressed, Twister, Arial Exchange, Jam, etc in Canada - all it takes is a few other magicians who decide to buy them and suddenly what was "different" and "unique" becomes commonplace.

I'm curious why the original poster focuses on the illusionists. It seems to me that I also see a great many close up magicians perform variations of the Ambitious Card, Triumph, 3 Card Monte, Card to Impossible Location, ACAD, Sponge Balls, Cups and Balls, Doc Daley's Last Card Trick, Sam the Bellhop, MacDonald's Aces, etc. Having said that I have also seen many of my favourite magicians ROCK with these and other classic closeup effects as I have seen some of my favourite illusionists ROCK with the above mentioned illusions…

…just saying'
GeorgePrikkel
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Scott en Muriel, from Holland, does a one hour show of all original ilusions. You can see some video's at they're website: http://www.Scottandmuriel.com
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