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Chris Cheong New user Malaysia 100 Posts |
Did a show last night and was performing the Russian roulette nail effect.
The spectator on stage who was suppose to mix up the paper bags decided to swap the nail into different bags which eventually cause a nail through my palms. Any advice to avoid such in the future? |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
My advice - Stop doing the routine
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Michael Zarek Special user Sweden 923 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-23 13:24, Mindpro wrote: I would advice the same. It's a stupid routine anyway, definitly not worth even 0,5% risk
Reader discretion is advised.
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
There is always going to be a risk when the spectators are left to do things you are not watching, if it can go wrong it willeventually go Wong when the general public are involved.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
When I regularly performed my Russian Roulette routine with four pistols I had several safety precautions. The main concern was a point in the routine where I had my back turned to the participant while he was placing number cards on the guns. It was essential that he didn't move the guns (which were hung on an easel) but just the numbers.
Instructions had to be explicit and not at all ambiguous. Further, I emphasized to the participant and the audience that the experiment was legitimately dangerous and that it was critical that the participant followed my instructions EXACTLY. I advised the audience to tell me if the participant did anything he was not instructed to do. Additionally, I frequently had a friend in the audience, or an employee of the venue, carefully watching the presentation, ready to cue me if the volunteer was not following instructions. I did the routine for over ten years without an accident, but there were several times when a participant, either willfully, or by mistake, did not do as instructed. Fortunately, I knew instantly when that occurred and would generally dismiss that volunteer and start again with a new one. In the end, though, I decided that the effect wasn't really the type of mentalism I wanted to continue with. Why, I asked myself, would I want to risk serious injury or death just for the sake of entertainment? (Especially when many in the audience would never actually appreciate the fact that the effect really WAS dangerous.) I didn't. So I no longer do. |
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Mike Ince Inner circle 2041 Posts |
If you insist on doing this, try T2 Sterile by Randi Rain. 100% safe. Also look at Jimmy Fingers' Slamdown. Devil's Nail 2.0 may also be good but I haven't used it. T2 and Scott Alexander's "Shattered" are the only roulettes I've seen that are 100% safe.
I did an impromptu method with a pencil last year, but I took Bob's advice and had a friend there to alert me if instructions weren't followed.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-23 14:02, stubbs360 wrote: Maybe it's just me, but this has always been one of those routines that I think impresses the entertainer much more than the audience. In some ways I think it is an insult to the audience. This combined with the fact that it is usually performed sooooooo overdramtically that it actually appears to have a adverse affect of being unbelievable. Do audiences really think you're risking your life or putting yourself in grave danger? Get real. At this point it then becomes a magic trick to the audience. As I said I've never understood this. |
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Meng Regular user Somewhere in Germany I wrote 128 Posts |
Sorry to hear that you got hurt!
But do you remember this thread started by you earlier this year? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15 I really wonder if you are still eager to play it with a gun? Quote:
On 2013-10-23 14:49, Mindpro wrote: My sentiments exactly. |
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BlakeAdams Special user Texas 641 Posts |
I do a two stage version of the spike trick for 4 years and my audience always loves it. They talk about it almost to much after the show. Done correctly this can be a show stopper, that's why its been around for years and years.... I have multiple safety elements and would have to be drunk off my a** to hurt myself. I don't like it when people really put themselves in danger during effects, but the illusion of danger can be very very effective.
Blake |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
In my old routine of this type I had several marks that I could peek at to know that everything was the way it was supposed to be. So cups cover coasters and one coaster had a sharp shard of glass pointing straight up. I had a mark on the cup that covered it and a mark on the coaster. If those two weren't together and in the same place then something was wrong. It never happened, but I wanted that kind of safety for myself.
And both marks were very subtle so only I noticed them. They kind of blended into each material. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Jamie D Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2292 Posts |
I use to perform this type of routine all the time but I haven't in the last year. The safest way I found to do this was bli***olded. That way I felt I was in controll and could keep tabs on what was actually going on at almost all times. Audience management is obviously key but sometimes, it doesn't matter what you say or do.
Darren
Twitter @darjames
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
If getting impaled in the hand isn't enough of a clue that you are not cut out to perform this kind of effect I don't think any advice anyone else gives is going to do you any good.
I doubt that Mindpro's excellent advice of, 'Stop doing the routine', is likely to be taken onboard if getting stabbed in the hand hasn't already sent that message to you loud and clear. Unfortunately that is the problem with giving advice on these sort of effects... the people who need to take heed of it never do. And even worse the people that need to take heed of it give advice to others which puts them in the same danger as the people giving the advice are placing themselves in. The blind leading the blind... or in this case the about to be impaled through the hand leading the already impaled through the hand. To illustrate this lets look at Blake Adams post in this thread. (I'm sorry to use you as an example Blake but I'm trying to save you a visit to the hospital) He writes, "I have multiple safety elements and would have to be drunk off my a** to hurt myself." He'd have to be drunk off his a** to hurt himself... So there are things that can go wrong that will result in him getting spiked but as far as he's concerned they won't because he's always got it all under control. What Blake needs to understand first and foremost is that if something can go wrong, even something he can't yet imagine, at some point it will. Here's what anyone doing one of these routines needs to consider (but probably wont because they think it doesn't apply to them) ... If you are doing one of these routines and the procedure or form of the routine permits you, should you so choose, to masochistically impale your hand, like some demented mad man, onto the spike, nail, or whatever you are using... then the routine contains a danger factor that you cannot avoid and at some point you are going to get hurt and impale yourself. That it hasn't happened to you yet is no indication that it's not going to happen the next time or the time after that. I can only assume that these kinds of incomprehensible mistakes are not for the likes of Blake Adams and all the others that perform this trick with an 'active' element in play.... No, unlike everyone else on the planet they are not susceptible to either the vagaries of circumstances, or the vagaries of the mind that afflict all other human beings. There have been loads of performers who, even though they knew exactly where the spike was have nevertheless smashed their hand down onto it. This wasn't madness on their part (although it looks like that)... it was nothing more than a simple mistake, a moment of confusion that anyone can make and many have. Blake Adams and the others that perform this effect presumably believe that they could never make this mistake... but that's their 1st mistake... the second one will be just before they feel a searing pain shoot through their hand. In light of this, Mindpro's advice is apropos... Don't perform these sorts of routines. If you understand the reality of the non-perfect nature of the human brain but you want to do one of these effects there are versions of it available that literally remove the real danger element (but not the perceived danger) from the routine... However there are also versions that claim to do this but don't, or do but still leave room for other vagaries of circumstance to create other potential dangers.... so beware.... The only version I would recommend is Randi Rain's T2 which is, in my opinion, the best of these by all and any measure. As for whether these routines have a value or place in a show?... well on this point I disagree with Mindpro but my views, along with the views of others on this topic, are discussed here
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
If something is done over and over eventually the worst case scenario will happen. Therefore, make sure that whatever effect you are performing you can live with (literally) the worst case scenario.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Well said. Mistakes happen even for the most experienced and seasoned performers.
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Mind illusionist Special user Australia 949 Posts |
Am I the only one that's concerned about your hand man? Are you still able to use at full function?
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Perhaps you can do a two phase routine with a stigmata theme for the second part... blood dripping, you paint out a prediction or reveal a thought etc.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-10-24 09:52, Mind illusionist wrote: I thought of that but assumed if he was posting about it he was ok. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
I was considering using Outlaws's Scorpion along with SS 2.5.
To me this would seem to be an extremely safe combination - as close to fool proof as possible. Also you guys haven't mentioned Jon Allen's "The Pain Game" which I don't own but have heard is quite safe. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/opinio.......html?hp
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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John Raff M Loyal user Republic of Ireland 233 Posts |
Hi Chris,
Hope your hand is ok. I would like to reiterate the advice of Mindpro and the rest by advising to stop doing this routine. I know its entertaining and fun but I doubt it was fun for either you or your audience when the nail went through your hand! We all love magic and mentalism here on this board but it is not worth such an injury. Again I hope you're ok. Best, John. |
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David Numen Inner circle 2072 Posts |
I've heard of so many accidents with this effect and there seem to be so many variations of it on the market that it tells me all I need to know about performing it - DON'T!
Not just because it's dangerous but simply that if there are so many versions and so many accidents then a LOT of magi and mentalists must be performing it. Look at how often the basic idea of a Russian Roulette type effect was tweaked and twisted on that talent show thing with Uri and Angel a few years ago - do something different. |
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