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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 00:26, mastermindreader wrote: I've read most of RAW's work, including this. I was lucky enough to spend some time with him. We ended up an an airport trading buying each other drinks. I owed him the last round when he had to go to his plane. He passed before I could pay my debt. I would recommend anything by RAW as a humorous and often mind-twisting experience. |
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
Let me suggest that there does, indeed, seem to be a skeptic-subculture in the West that notably contrasts with the wider western macro-culture. They seem to read the same sources, and converse with each other, and function in a kind of community (or scattered "tribe") who "socially construct" and maintain a shared worldview. They employ the same fairly specialized language, they seem to be similarly cognitively rooted in a "materialistic scientism" ideology.
They substantially share a small constellation of attitudes, beliefs, emotions and values, and a worldview, that contrast with those of the wider culture. They seem to agree that they are superior (the "Brights") to people in the wider culture. Like other subcultures and micro- cultures, some are core members and others are less involved. Core membership (at least) is contingent upon agreement; the long-time skeptics who have now conceded the evidence for psi can expect to be ostracized (or excommunicated) from the tribe. Within the subculture, of course, there is some variation; some skeptics, for instance, are angry ideological debunkers, but some (perhaps most) are not, and those who are not are often embarrassed by those who are. George |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Very true, George. Just as those of us who support serious psi research are often embarrassed by the wide-eyed uncritical thinkers who believe that anything they don't understand must, therefore, be paranormal. (Or that reality television "ghost shows" must be legitimate because they use fancy scientific instruments and use terms like EVP and have infra-red cameras and thermal detectors.)
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
I see this being resolved at Jack's Pub or at least discussed in depth till I forget what we were talking about.
I would think any testing that didn't include billions of permutations would not pass the randomness threshold. Perhaps we can do a test Bob? To determine how many Macallan's you can buy me before I accept the premise? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
You're on! See you there!
:eek: |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote: On 2013-11-08 15:17, mastermindreader wrote: |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
Fair enough! You might browse Moulton and Kosslyn, 2008 study using neuro imaging to debunk psi.
I am going to trust you are not going to use any "trickery" and just stick to the facts! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
And you might want to review the statistical results compiled by Radin and the statements made by Hyman regarding the soundness of current testing protocols as well as the statements by Wiseman, Blackmore, et al, that concede psi has been proven by normal scientific standards.
No trickery. Of course not. Unless you consider the fact that I can be very persuasive to be a form of trickery. But for the record, the neuro imaging studies are, IMO, meaningless because they presume a particular underlying mechanism for psi, which may or may not be correct or applicable. |
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
If you guys can tolerate a teetotaling Methodist, and understand that his body came from the Eastern time zone, I will make my virgin excursion into Jack's.
George |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Please do, George.
Look forward to seeing you. Best- Bob |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I'm skeptical about psuedo-skeptics...not sure where that leaves me...
and have a few rums for me at Mindvention and the pub...
I've asked to be banned
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 12:22, mastermindreader wrote: Bob, I'm willing to be convinced by double-blind replicable experiments. That would be ordinary scientific proof as I understand it. Links or citations would be interesting if you care to post them.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
George as long as there isn't another Methodist in Jack's Pub you are free to drink up! Welcome, I think I speak for Bob in letting you pick up the bar tab.
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
"But for the record, the neuro imaging studies are, IMO, meaningless because they presume a particular underlying mechanism for psi, which may or may not be correct or applicable."
That's the beauty of mythologies.....there is always the possibility of finding a unicorn. Don't worry George. Bob and I will solve this mystery...but it could be expensive. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2013-11-08 18:20, landmark wrote: Do you know that the famous sheep/goat experiment devised by Gertrude Schmeidler is one test in particular that has been widely replicated, much to the consternation of skeptics? You can find a wealth of information about this and the entire field of parapsychology, together with source material, studies, etc., at the Parapsychology Association website. (The PA is a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science) http://www.parapsych.org I also recommend Dean Radin's "The Conscious Universe" for an understanding of how meta-analyses of literally thousands of controlled experiments has made a strong case for psi. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 18:31, RCP wrote: Respectfully (since we will be drinking together shortly) that is an entirely unfair statement and strongly indicates that you have prejudged psi as being a "mythology." All I stated was that neuro-imaging studies pre-suppose a mechanism for psi that may or may not be warranted. THAT, I suggest, is the foundation of many mythologies that many "skeptics" adhere to. |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
If we are going to go drinking together Bob we need to have some ground rules about goats and sheep. I grew up in west Texas, nuff said. Since I consider "parapsychology" in the same genre as religion or mythology we may have some issues regarding credibility. But as long as George is financing the research I am game.
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
When the waiter brings the check, all of you will observe that I have a real serious impediment in my reach!
George |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Just sign your name "Danny Archer." I'm sure he won't mind.
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Bard Loyal user 223 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-08 12:22, mastermindreader wrote: God I love this man. . . Iain, thanks for the name corrections. . . English being as it is (and here I am trying to learn Spanish) |
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