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alondon
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What was the 3 card monte routine that he did--I know I have seen this, but can't place it???
Thanks
M Sini
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On 2013-11-24 12:58, alondon wrote:
What was the 3 card monte routine that he did--I know I have seen this, but can't place it???
Thanks


Garrett Thomas, Stand up Monte
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For people into gaffed monte routines, how has the classical Skinner approach compared with this Garrett Thomas thing. In your real world feedback from laypeople?

I do not have the G. Thomas routine.

It is cool how the G. Thomas thing escalates but I am not so sure it can be burned? On the TV show I thought the Monte routine was technically less deceptive / weaker than the other card effects on the show. There is a discrepancy in the core move but I guess laypeople don't register that the way I do. Emotionally it was nice, or very relatable as everybody has heard of the infamous 3 Card Monte and it is nice the betting / gambling / profit / money implications.

How do you all think gaffed Monte routines compare with the classical non gaff approach. The bent corner kicker can be extremely strong for those not expecting it, but you really have to be subtle about that bend and make it look like a total accident.


When I was living in Vegas it was awesome to see the real guys doing their monte thing often on the overpasses between the casinos. Crisp C notes passing hands.

When I would do street magic sometimes the cops would give me a hard time thinking I was doing Monte but I only do magic and there are never real bets placed during my show. And no pickpocketing or violent threats of course.

I am fascinated by Monte. Also peas and shells.

If you guys are into Monte check out the book Fooling Houdini. Very witty / playful writer there. A whole chapter I believe on Monte in it. His direct experience with Monte in NYC and the psychology of that con. The whole secret is preying on people's greed and opportunism. The mark must believe YOU the hustler are their mark!

I am perpetually in radical awe of how vast the cornucopia of moves and ruses is for cards.

Best,

Cap
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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landmark
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To me, the traditional ungaffed monte well-performed is a thing of beauty. Not a fan of the gaffed versions. IMO, this is an effect that demands to be examinable.

There are some very good ungaffed versions, (I like John Guastaferro's a lot) but I still think none are as good as the traditional ones.

I also disagree that the bent corner scam has to look like a complete accident. For a magician (not a hustler!), even if the audience suspects that you're leading them on, the final revelation is still astounding.

Sorry to wander from the main topic. I thought it was fun how Blaine echoed several effects from his original special.
Robvs
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On 2013-11-26 03:00, cap casino wrote:
For people into gaffed monte routines, how has the classical Skinner approach compared with this Garrett Thomas thing. In your real world feedback from laypeople?

I do not have the G. Thomas routine.

It is cool how the G. Thomas thing escalates but I am not so sure it can be burned? On the TV show I thought the Monte routine was technically less deceptive / weaker than the other card effects on the show. There is a discrepancy in the core move but I guess laypeople don't register that the way I do. Emotionally it was nice, or very relatable as everybody has heard of the infamous 3 Card Monte and it is nice the betting / gambling / profit / money implications.

How do you all think gaffed Monte routines compare with the classical non gaff approach. The bent corner kicker can be extremely strong for those not expecting it, but you really have to be subtle about that bend and make it look like a total accident.


When I was living in Vegas it was awesome to see the real guys doing their monte thing often on the overpasses between the casinos. Crisp C notes passing hands.

When I would do street magic sometimes the cops would give me a hard time thinking I was doing Monte but I only do magic and there are never real bets placed during my show. And no pickpocketing or violent threats of course.

I am fascinated by Monte. Also peas and shells.

If you guys are into Monte check out the book Fooling Houdini. Very witty / playful writer there. A whole chapter I believe on Monte in it. His direct experience with Monte in NYC and the psychology of that con. The whole secret is preying on people's greed and opportunism. The mark must believe YOU the hustler are their mark!

I am perpetually in radical awe of how vast the cornucopia of moves and ruses is for cards.

Best,

Cap


When I was young and dumb I stood for a session of 3 card monte in Manhattan. Dude told me that we were going to play for money, but only after a few hands of practice. However, he "needed to see the money" first to make sure that he wasn't wasting his time. I put $100 on the table (in 20's) with the intent of gambling it eventually- I had a basic understanding of the moves, but not the whole scam with shills, threats, boxing you out of the action, word games, etc. Thought it was a pretty legitimate operation- lol. I won about five times in a row. Caught some of his difficult moves. However, he got me on the bent corner thing. He was playing with red 2's and a black Queen, but he did the whole "color in the round part of the 2 to make it look like a portion of a black queen thing" when it's strategically bent. He took the money from the table and closed up shop as I was boxed out by his "spectators"- who looked like clean-cut dudes, not like him. But wait...we were playing for fun still. There was a cop a block over. I figured I'd try my luck and see if he could help. I told him the truth (except I told him that I lost $200). He thought I was nuts. As we spoke, the dude happened to walk by and the cop stopped him and made him give me $200 ($100 in profit). It was awesome, but then we had to run for our lives as we were chased through Manhattan and onto a train. Quickly got off at the Jamaica station as the doors were closing and a bad guy was approaching us from a neighboring car. We should have stayed on the train. Our adventures in Jamaica were even worse....
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Landmark, Interesting point about 'echoing' from his first special. Yeah the '2 card monte' was a big hit from that. That is one of Blaine's 'workers' if you will. He did it on G. Bush and E. Smith.

I think what I like about your comment is how I just noticed both his monte routines seem to happen ON or in the spectator's own hands. Again excellent 'hot button' triggering through great effect selection or thoughtful alteration by Blaine.
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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Landmark- I guess what I am wondering is if we can do iconic effects without innovation. When does an effect become so famous that the climax is weakened or anticipated. It is I think an interesting question. Because certainly an effect or approach became iconic because it was very effective for a long time.
There is value in that approach. So why change what works. Though for me as an audience member the classic three card monte or cups and balls endings would not be so effective because I would anticipate so strongly the climax and sequences leading up to that climax. (Expectations manipulation and time misdirection would not be potent on my mind) Ofcourse I have been a magician for almost 20 years. Still Monte and Cups and Balls are so well known I think many laypeople might also be 'waiting' for the final loads or bent corner ruse on some level. Not all of the audiences but perhaps a disconcerting amount.

The right balance between staying classical and going innovative is the crux of my point, and I have no silver bullet or dogma to offer.

Best,

Cap
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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Rob- My my, you were playing with fire big time.

O and finish the story dude!

Heheh.
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

see capcasino.com
cap casino
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One time I was doing street magic on the Vegas strip. I had a small crowd of four guys each I would say around age 25. They were all friends. I was doing card tricks. They were very enthusiastic and all tipped me well. I did a couple more effects for them. During all this a very hot girl had walked by and kinda sorta watched the show for a moment and giggled and hugged one of the guys and kissed him. This is not so unusual in Vegas because it is like 'New Year's Eve' every night. A party spirit. I get high fived and hugs from people all the time in Vegas. Total strangers. Scream and hooting. This kind of thing. If you are playful and 'alpha' sometimes chicks will make out with you right on the street five minutes after meeting you. It is crazy I know. Anyways...after I was walking away from the set one of the guys started freaking out. His smartphone was gone. It was the very worst appearance for me. I approached these strangers did sleight of hand for them and now their phone was gone. Ouch. I had NOT stolen anything. Never have never will. But the spotlight was on me. I said call your phone. They did nothing rang from me. I said please check out all my pockets. Nothing there. Hmm. They were thinking of looking for a cop. There are a lot of cops standing outside lining the Vegas strip it is so easy to locate a cop in Vegas. They really liked me and I think knew the truth. But at least at that time in the frenzy they didn't think of the girl that hugged them. My gut knew upon reflection she was a pickpocket. Nobody had gotten that close to them except her. They were perfectly distracted by my magic show. Sad. Folks, try to find pants pockets that can ZIP shut or at least be buttoned.
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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So many crazy Vegas memories. Once I was doing card magic on this guy and a cop walked over and said "Hi" THEN THE DUDE STARTED RUNNING! Like crazy. A big fat dude. It was kinda hilarious to see this big guy try to run like an Olympian. His body was slow but his spirit or desperation made him pretty darn fast, like crazy hysterical into the street to try to get away from the cop. All hell broke loose. About 7 cops finally got him in the middle of the Vegas strip not on the sidewalk but in the little sliver of land between each side of the street in the middle. I was just glad a shootout didn't start and me get caught in the crossfire. I asked the cops as they were writing him up what was his crime I was so curious. But all they said was "you his good friend?" like with the tone am I an accomplice. I just shut my mouth and kept on moving. Street magic is exciting in Vegas in this way that you never know for sure who you are going to meet or what exactly might happen. These two stories are dark but so many (thousands) of lighter incidents just too many to mention here or now.


Best,

Cap
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

see capcasino.com
BigDC
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I love watching David Blaine. At first his dry personality was way too lacking for me, but the more I have watched his stuff the more I came to the realization I actually liked him. In my opinion he is so much better then Chris Angel. David Blain attracts the REAL PEOPLE to watch his speacials. Don't ask me to explain what I mean by the REAL PEOPLE, I can't, so you just have to know in your heart what I mean.
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You mean real vs. stooges?
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Robvs
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On 2013-11-26 20:43, cap casino wrote:
Rob- My my, you were playing with fire big time.

O and finish the story dude!

Heheh.


If you've ever been to NY's Penn Station, you'll learn that if you miss the 3am train to long island, you're not catching another train until 5:45am. Train a seems like the end of a night, Tran b seems like the beginning of a hangover. We caught the 3am train and got off at Jamaica Queens because we were trying to be crafty in our escape. Jamaica Queens is the a@@hole of the planet- and the next train didn't come through until 6am. I would rather have given back the 200 bucks, and gotten my butt kicked than sleep off a fierce buzz next to someone who is sleeping on a broken Heineken bottle for 3 hours on a cold train platform.
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On 2013-11-26 23:51, daffydoug wrote:
You mean real vs. stooges?


That is only a VERY SMALL portion of what I mean. As I said before I can't really explain it, I guess I don't know how to really explain what I mean, sufficient to say you have to know it.
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David Blaine had a strong influence on me getting into magic when I was a kid, so for that I'll always be thankful and a fan.
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I thought it was a very enjoyable special and in my opionion raises the bar for these types of magic shows. It erased (thank you) from my mind practically everything C.A. has taped.

The use of a mix of regular "street people" with recognizable celebrities of very diverse demographics was brilliant. Lay people like looking at celebrities; and if those lay people don't particularly go out of their way to view magic, maybe they would to see Will Smith or Woody Allan...

I thought the effects were very strong, and the reactions genuine. I thought the background bio on kerosene/water regurgitator Hadji Ali, and the subsequent story of tracking down a modern practioner in Liberia as a mentor, and ending with a demo for Robert De Niro to be great fun and pure dangerous sideshow theater. An enjoyable break from the sleight of hand and ESP.

I'll be honest, I never particularly thought much of David Blaine one way or another- until this special

Ricky Gervaise's evolving reaction to the needle through arm "illusion", and his comments at the end were priceless. Bravo.
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I enjoyed this special...my only criticism would be that it was a little heavy on the geek magic.I would have preferred seeing more sleight of hand, and less stunts. Definately his best special in recent memory IMHO.
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We were chatting a bit about blaine's 3 card monte sequence on the show and then monte in general.

For those into monte type material check out Bob Sheet's Boot Camp lecture or video on this topic. I saw his lecture on this effect at the recent SAM convention in Wash DC. Sooo killer insights from him! A real convention highlight for me.
(The other would be Denny H. lecturing on the egg bag)

Best,
Cap
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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BigDC
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Whether this was real or magic on Blaine's part, it is very irrelevant, because it was ALL very well done. I applaud David Blaine for this.
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FYI, the special is repeating Wednesday night on ABC TV, at 10pm. (Jan. 8)
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