The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » On Blaine's "Real or Magic?" » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
cap casino
View Profile
New user
79 Posts

Profile of cap casino
Really nice job by David tonight.

Various celebrities and millions at home were baffled yet again.

Some thoughts-

What his critics (“ugh David Plain had more personality inside that block of ice than out!” etc. etc.) can’t seem to understand even after all these years is the mind of most laypeople.

The logic is really simple and goes something like this I think-

Magic isn’t real
Magicians are artists who use a concealed natural method
Sleight of hand is a natural method
Gadgets are a natural method
Misdirection is a natural method
Sleeves are a natural method
Etc. etc. is a natural method

Doing magic in natural settings like the street or a real home is a deeper mystery. It is not just a ‘branding’ thing, though surely it is also that. “I am modern / hip / daring” etc. But more importantly it is a deeper mystery. You are in an environment with apparently less opportunities for deception. This core deeper mystery is then enhanced by excellent effect selection by David. I have closely tracked his career and been really impressed by how almost all the effects on his shows seem to occur in the spectator’s own hands. This is absolutely one of the strongest hot buttons to a layperson. (There are about 10 or so other core hot buttons that I have been exploring for almost 20 years now.)

(If you caught the recent Ricky Jay film Deceptive Practice, some of these points and themes were powerfully made there.)

Now most educated 21st century people deep down know it is an art form and not literally real but they appreciate the fantasy and sensation or rush of awesome even unlimited freedom and power a master magician artist creates for them. It is an interesting game isn’t it? They know you are about to deceive them and yet they still crave and expect you to utterly baffle them. It is not like a con man or pickpocket on the metro where you do NOT know that a deception is upcoming.

“I am an illusionist”. And yet still be deeply baffled and experience true astonishment. Real actual astonishment. Be tricked so hard you scream “no way” and freak out. Can you imagine if a pickpocket announced he was going to try to steal your wallet upfront and then still got away with it?! Absolutely sublimely outrageous dramatic premise / challenge / game. Yet that is what master magicians do. We are not pickpockets…o yes we are.


Anyways, as I said I have my own list of ‘hot buttons’ to squeeze and shred laypeople. But I am interested in what you all think and feel about this.

Also if you have any favorite effects that seem to go beyond what any sleight of hand or gadgetry should be able to do please mention them so the community can benefit.

Again what Blaine or Dynamo achieve is a depth of conceptual mystery. Humans have eyes AND reason. Inner conceptual reason. Always remember that. Depending on your method, card through airplane window while it is in flight might not be harder for you than card through car window but it will surely trigger an awesome response from most laypeople if done smoothly. There simply seems to be a vastly greater challenge for the illusionist artist in the former scenario. (The airplane)

When I was a young man my father sent me to the best (in his mind, i.e. private) schools in northern VA. Latin, French, Aristotle, Shakespeare, Ballroom dancing, etc. …exhaustively for years on and on like this…even at 5th or 6th grade level we were trained like boot camp to be renaissance men and masters of the universe. After spending about 100k on all this over multiple years I told him one day I wanted to be a close-up magician. He flew into a rage and kept stuttering in total confusion “cards?” “A $2 pack of cards?” “How can you ever make a living with an art or science that can only be conveyed to a couple people at a time?” (“But pops that is exactly what makes it such an intriguing / moving / sublime / exciting thing for me, the anywhere anytime intimacy even communion you can manifest with others) He further explaining to my mom frantically (now his ex wife) that I ‘scribbled in my notebook and shuffled cards incoherently all day long…’ and must surely have OCD / ADHD / Asperger’s etc. etc. if only we could get me on the right pills I could be fixed and become a proper lawyer like him.

Sigh.

Folks, love him or hate him, my heart smiled wide tonight knowing millions coast to coast were tonight by Mr. David Blaine transported quite literally Out of this World.


And with just a $2 pack of cards.


Best,
Cap
" Hands of invisible spirits touch the strings
Of that mysterious instrument, the soul,
And play the prelude of our fate."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

see capcasino.com
korttihai_82
View Profile
Inner circle
Finland
1795 Posts

Profile of korttihai_82
I actually thought it was rather entertaining as well. Little too many fakir stunts for my taste but there was also lots of good magic in there and not nearly as much "tv stuff" as one might expect. I bet especially those two things with bills with get some focus in forums since many will suspect that they were tv magic and more knowledgeable magicians actually know their sources and that they could be done like in tv. Also there was stuff from Paul Harris, Michael Weber, Juan Tamariz and Garret Thomas performed to name a few.

Yes, editing is still rather heavy but people forget that it pretty much has to be for modern MTV audience. You really cant do heavy sleight of hand pieces and hope people wont start to post em on youtube and rewind em all over the place. Misdirection doesn't work really on camera so in many cases you just do the moves out of frame.

Also I kinda understand what Blaine tries to do or at least in my mind he just leaves out all the building up from the routines and goes straight to climax on camera, since that is what people in real world remember anyway. They don't remember how the card was selected or thought off... They just remember the revelation. The selection procedure is just dead time on tv.

Also lots of people on facebook seemed to whine that there is no drama or build up or longer routines. Its sad but try put someone like Armando Lucero or Paul Vigil on tv for american audiences... Even though they kill live their material woudnt work on tv I belive. You just cant send their intensity thru the 2 dimensional tv screen. It is just how the tv works. In recent history only Fool us has shown magic in real uncut format in tv. Fool us was decent success but still not big enough to get renewed for second season. Magicians loved it, small group of laymen found it entertaining as well but it wasnt liked in same sense as masses like Angel, Blaine or Dynamo... Sad but true... I actually wonder if normal magic show without any tv stuff could even work in tv anymore...

Juha-Matti
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4823 Posts

Profile of landmark
Anyone who watched that last night will be talking about it today. That can only be good.
The Anti-Cris puts himself out there as an ordinary guy that does extraordinary things.
The final moments were brilliant. His enigmatic smile as Ricky Gervais begged, "Is that Real or Magic?" His just saying nothing, and the camera lingering on his enigmatic smile. One of the best uses of silence since the ending of Chaplin's City Lights.
And I think his biting the 20 dollar bill was a nice little nod, wink, and gift to his magician fans and friends--he knew that we knew he was repeating his bitten coin with a bill. The crease was very (I think intentionally) noticeable.
Very, very good. We could all learn a lot from him.
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
What ever happened to 'a good magician never does a trick twice'? Especially when you've got so much access to camera cuts and pre-show,or, at least, pre-segment, work.

Also, it was really obvious to me that the magic with 'iffy' outcomes, such as psychological forces, and other unreliable methods, were usually done for the anonymous spectators, and the things that were less dependent on percentages were done with the famous guests. With anonymous spectators, if you miss, you just gather a different set of spectators and start again. Wow.

These TV shows are being aimed at the unwashed masses, and, quite frankly, have nothing to do with the art that is presented by those of us who perform live, for a living. Real-time.

It's almost ridiculous to even be talking about this show here, because it has nothing to do with what the art of performing real-time magic is about. Why aren't we talking about Harry Potter more often like this?

There was a time when doing the needle through arm trick was amazing, because you knew that it wasn't real. And fire eating was real, but not common. With the prevalence of sideshow, geek, self mutilation and fetish, these are becoming passé. Magic, no. Interesting? Barely.

There are a lot of fresh effects and premises out there to be abused and manipulated by camera cuts and slick production. Why in the hell do we have to see Blaine put money in his mouth over and over and over? How many times did he do it? 3? 4? If I can't remember, that's a problem. For me, at least.

All in all, I really like the person that David Blaine is. I have absolutely NO problem with him getting out of the way of the magic being performed. And the lack of ego is so refreshing. But, the repeated performances of PK Touches with time-selective editing (I know, Jamie Foxx's nose thing wasn't)just add to the mountain of erosion of the public trust that is going on.

The public's trust and mine.

There was a glaring difference between when Blaine was doing real-time stunts(less cuts) and 'replay sensitive' magic(more cuts). Argh. I'd rather leave something vulnerable to rewatched material than the abuse of the medium. At some point, the YouTube exposers will just disect the segments the way that a couple of us magicians do at home while it's going.

Sooner or later, the intelligent people will realize that they're only seeing part of the show. And I don't think that they'll continue to gather when they realize that the things that they're seeing can't be done live.

I'm ready for the apologists for 'televised magic' need the safety of pre-show and post-production. Heard it before, seen it before.

I'm ready to stop watching TV magic altogether. I gave Blaine another chance to do something special, but he just did a special.

I'm tuning out. When will the general public follow suit?

Oh, and here's a little challenge. If we put creators, geniuses and original artists like Raymond Crowe in the public eye, then we'll encourage more creativity in our up and coming, young magicians. If we put ego driven, god complex filled work on the screen, we'll continue to get shameless self promoters like Criss Angel.

Someone mentioned Paul Vigil, and how he wouldn't work on TV. That is the problem with all of the Harry Potters doing the contrived crap on TV. I don't believe that Paul would sell out in that way. The Harry Potters and their "magic for TV" mentality has deprived this generation of the superstars of magic that graced the couch of Johnny Carson and the stage of Ed Sullivan in a better time for the art. Paul has done the real work. And he has to sit on the sidelines while this junk is crammed onto the airwaves.

What would you rather see? I know what I would rather see.

But, I'm sure that all of this is falling on mostly deaf ears. If you are in disagreement with this, fine, but you're not the person that I'm looking for to have a deep discussion on the art. I'm looking for like minded souls who get what I'm saying, and who are interested in furthering the quality of the performance art, not the quantity of anything.

Jimmy
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
In othherwords, you are looking for those that agree with you.

That won't be me. It was a great show from beginning to end, the first time I've been excited by a magic show in probably 5 years. The effects were great. I loved the Vernon tribute. My girlfriend who watched it with me absolutely was floored.

What effect did he do that couldn't be done live in your opinion?
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4823 Posts

Profile of landmark
I respectfully disagree. While though those of us who are familiar with method know that there was selective editing, I don't feel it was cheating at all. It gave the layperson's view of what happened. I think most magicians when performing live, strive to have the spec remember the effects in that same way. If you were to perform PK touches competently live, you would not have someone complain that they saw it done differently on TV. Their impression would be that you did the same thing that was done on television.
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
I liked the Vernon touch, too. And, I should clarify, it can't be done live as it appeared in the show. I would rather see PK Touches done with the magician at least taking advantage of the camera angles, and not whether the red light was on or off.

Yes, there are so many people using 'radical acceptance' of what we're being shoveled, that I have to only pursue deep discussions with people who agree on a basic, simple few basic guidelines of what is art, and what is popular with middle America. Is that so bad, that I'm discerning about what I want to be around?

I don't expect many here to agree with me, trust me. But, every now and then, I discover someone who REALLY gets it, like a Jared Kopf, for example. And people like that really make it worth it all.

Jimmy
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
I just don't believe that editing out the dirty work is the answer. To me, it's the problem. Because it encourages and furthers that behavior in those who would abuse that concept. Blaine abuses it less than most, but, in my eyes, it's still abuse.
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"and what is popular with middle America. "

Clearly Blaine is popular with middle America.
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
Quote:
On 2013-11-20 13:07, Slide wrote:
"and what is popular with middle America. "

Clearly Blaine is popular with middle America.


So is Nascar, Jerry Spranger and rasslin'
BenJammin69
View Profile
New user
Baton Rouge, LA
7 Posts

Profile of BenJammin69
Personally, I loved it!

Sure there were some edits that were a bit cheesy, but nothing like the levitation edit from his first show. (That one opened up the floodgates for the ****** with the ego to put out far too many shows full of stooges and camera tricks)
I don't doubt that Blaine could do each and every one of the effects from the show in front of a live audience (and do them well).
Of course, I would prefer to see the entire routine without editing out some of the dirty work. Doing out of this world after dropping the deck on the floor? Show me a good deck switch! Got an interesting reveal for guessing what color the spectator guesses? Show me the force! I do, however, understand that the show is aimed at the lay audience - not magicians.

I loved the material he selected and yet again - David Blaine has me excited about Magic!
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
Give me Fool Us or a rarely seen great magician on AGT... Of course, I'm biased, but, even Wizard Wars with Bizarro, Kyle Marlett, Rick Lax and that other guy. (on YouTube) . Just keeping it real.

The fact that it's aimed at the lay audience should make it even MORE viable to use real-time effects, not less.

It doesn't take much to entertain and mystify the lay audience. So, why go so far out of our way to hide so much from them?

How about handing the handheld camera to one of the uninformed, untrained spectators, and letting THEM film it?

Hmm.
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"
So is Nascar, Jerry Spranger and rasslin' "

You do know that magic is an entertainment medium, right? It isn't "ART". It's entertainment. As the old saying goes, You can't argue with success. So, what did Blaine expose to the audience: some of the history of the craft, a nice tribute to Vernon for the insiders, some fantastic effects: both new and classic, served up in a very entertaining way.

Honestly, while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, it is incredibly hard for me to understand how anyone who loves magic could not have loved that show. BTW Jimmy, do you have any videos of yourself performing that you'd like to share?
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"How about handing the handheld camera to one of the uninformed, untrained spectators, and letting THEM film it? "

Again....you do know it is entertainment right? It is supposed to entertain.
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
I don't understand why entertainment and great, well conceived, simple magic have to be mutually exclusive.

There's plenty of video of me out there, not hard to find. But, this isn't about me. I can bring it, but not if you're a fan of Blaine/Angel/etc. But, yes, it's sometimes hard to watch my stuff when you're used to the stuff that is put out in the mainstream. But, plenty entertaining if the production group puts more into finding audiences and not into cuts and post production.

The sad thing is that my live performances are fine, but sometimes you get a review from a layman who is used to the spoon fed 'entertainment' that you speak of. What is happening is that there is no distinction anymore between CA and Harry Potter. I don't consider that very entertaining from a 'magic' standpoint. Sorry.

If the producers were to find someone in an audience who was good with a camera (YouTube seems to find it more often than you would expect), then we might have some very interesting situations arise. I'd rather experience jazz than hear a dj...
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
I'm simply into possibility, the kind that arises with artistic constraints and not attempts to appeal to the usual adherence to mainstream demands. Sorry if that doesn't sound interesting to some of the readers here.
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
You mean your stuff is only entertaining if the producers can find the right audience? ? !

I guess you must perform for other magicians.
Slide
View Profile
Special user
533 Posts

Profile of Slide
"I don't understand why entertainment and great, well conceived, simple magic have to be mutually exclusive. "

Which is exactly what the Blaine special accomplished in my opinion
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
I see your point, I see your side. I just disagree with the current trend to obtain the objectives, you agree with the current trends if you liked this show that much.

It's okay for us to disagree.
magic4545
View Profile
Inner circle
Jimmy Fingers
1166 Posts

Profile of magic4545
Quote:
On 2013-11-20 14:34, Slide wrote:
You mean your stuff is only entertaining if the producers can find the right audience? ? !

I guess you must perform for other magicians.


I think that I need more intelligent audiences that aren't susceptible to woo-woo. People who know that it's entertainment, and then they're blown away when the effects look impossible and real, without needing to believe in the supernatural to enjoy it.

My stuff needs to feel down and dirty, but on a stage, still. Gritty rat pack, Vegas lounge stuff that requires a certain group to appreciate it. Discuss.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » On Blaine's "Real or Magic?" » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (1 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL