In this month's Fireside Chat for children's entertainers, Jeremy and I decided to tackle the difficult subject of big props vs small props. Luckily we managed to do it without coming to blows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKetv4zhdHE

I think the interview would have been a trifle more exciting if you and Jeremy had some props in your hands to play with!! JR

There wasn't room, Roger!

Thank you for making the video, I liked and thought it was a good conversation. My only problem with it is that you guys keep pronouncing contoversy wrong....I'll coach you through it and you'll get the hang of it in no time...just kidding. The ideal way to have the discussion would be to get a lot of parents and entertainment bookers (anyone that would book entertainment for their company picnic, festival, etc) together and discuss - after all, they are the ones who book us and reccomend us to others. You'd want to get people who have hired entertainers before, and people who haven't. Kimo said people have low expectations of kids entertainers - I don't know about the UK, but I'd bet it depends on where you live, and each person has had their own experiences.
Here is a topic - when a potential clients contacts us, should we ask them what they expect or want (in terms of big/small props, etc) before they book us? I really don't know what they expect in terms of what kind of show I'll do and how fancy and elaborate it is, but hopefully they get the idea from all the photos and the demo video on my site, and me giving them a quick desription on the phone or email.
We all know a really good entertainer can get great reactions from some sponges, a tin can and coins, etc., but even if we go to a party or event and do a great job out of a breifcase and the kids love the show, do some clients feel like they didn't get their money's worth? I'm guessing that yes, it happens, some feel like the colorful box tricks are part of the fun of a kids show. I know when I was a kid, the colorful props were part of what I liked. Sometimes when I bring out a cool looking box trick the kids go "ooooh" and get excited before I even do anything. On the other hand, if you do only box tricks the client may feel like you don't have any real skills at magic, and that may be true. So I like to do a mix of both little stuff and box type tricks - but if it's not really entertaining I'll try something else. And yes, of course it goes without saying it's the entertainer, not the props that does the entertaining.

Yes, I picked up on the mispronunciation of the word controversy too. You Brits have to learn to speak proper English.

I am a prop guy. I don't use a lot of BIG props, but I use a lot of props. I use bigger props in my school and library performances as the crowds are much larger than a birthday show.

I've read many posts on this subject here on the Café' and it all boils down to the entertainer. There is no right or wrong answer. Like John stated, if you walk away from a performance leaving the client feeling like they got their moneys worth, your job is done whether you use big props or small props. My personal goal each and every show is to exceed expectations.

I totally agree Tommy, that's why my goal when I walk in the door is to lower expectations. Makes the job much easier.

Hummm, maybe I should try that

It's an interesting topic and magicians will be debating this long after we're all gone.

I do believe "some" magicians use props as a crutch to make up for a lack of real talent.

However, the flip side is that there are just as many magicians who carry a minimum amount of props but somehow believe their acts are more entertaining than they really are.

Gerry

The word prop means ‘support’. The less able you are to stand, walk, demonstrate, etc the more support you need. It follows therefore that the less abled entertainers need more support (to prop them up).

On the other hand, if you were SO abled that you did not need a prop at all then the client would perceive that she hadn’t got her money’s worth from you.
Hence, I don’t think it’s a valid argument, as either way is a no-win situation.

John

I think it comes down to the creativity and confidence of the performer. If you have an act that engages your audience, and your confidence shows through, it really doesn't matter how big or small or how many you have.
The bottom line is no matter how good you are there will ALWAYS be some people who don't like what you do.
If a persons perception of a magician is an elaborate stage show then the most talented close up worker will leave them with the feeling that SOMETHING was lacking.

The only sensible conclusion we always come to whenever we talk big props vs small props (and the one we reached in the video) is that the only thing that matters is the quality of the performance and the ability of the performer. Props big and small are just props. They will not make you a better entertainer or improve your show. Only YOU can do that.

Danny Hustle's original post (part of which I read out during the Fireside Chat) changed my entire career overnight. I stopped looking for the next big effect that would transform my show and started working on my interaction with the audience. When I got the chance to take part in the children's competition at Blackpool, I wasn't tempted to re-mortgage my house to buy the latest illusion (and it appears some of the other competitors did just that!). Instead I went out with a bit of rope and a very old puppet and just did what I knew best.

I regret that I didn't read out the rest of Danny's post, because it would have become clear that far from saying that big props are bad, all he was saying is that if you can't slay an audience with a twentieth century silks routine, you are unlikely to be able to do it with a $2000 illusion.

That's like saying any tool can hammer a nail into a board. The tool doesn't matter just as long you are a good carpenter. Of course props matter, just like using the right tool for the job.

Children love colorful props, and props can inspire us to be better performers, and help make our routines more visual and entertaining.

John... when you talk about the other competitors re-mortgaging their houses, are you referring to Dave Allen, Andy Clockwise, David Ginn, or me? Just curious!!! JR

I don't agree. Kids do love props. But they also love to just laugh. If you put the props in the room and went away, how entertaining would that be? It boils down to the performer, and many entertain with very little. Storytellers and comedians use no props, and kids love them.

I was being facetious Roger. Obviously no one had re-mortgaged their house! BUT - Everyone that day (yourself included) had made a huge effort to do something special for that competition, except me. At the time I felt outclassed and out of my depth. I doubted that even my most tried and tested routines could compete with your bigger / biggest wand or people riding around the stage on mini motorcycles.

I'll say again, in case people still don't get the point. No one is saying that big, expensive props are a bad thing. I have several myself. Photos of a big, impressive set-up may even help to get you a booking. I do firmly believe though, that unless you deliver the goods and entertain your audience, none of that counts for anything.

Ladies and gentlemen.............please listen to Kimmo on this one. At the end of the day, it is all about how good you are at entertaining your audience. The props you use or don't use are merely a vehicle in the journey to reach this end. A prop itself is never entertaining. Anyone can go to a music store and buy a violin. However, to play a violin well requires lots of practice and talent.

Kimmo fully deserved to win the world championship children's entertainer competition at Blackpool. For the record, HE won it and not an Axtell puppet and a couple of pieces of rope!!! JR

Hi, how do we know kids like colourful props ?
Is it because that,s what we have been told.
A bit of a throw back from clowning ? Or because years ago kids where less aware and more accepting of kiddie magic and story tricks and we have failed to keep up with times ? why are the most popular magicians on tv close up street magicians andnot Copperfield and the likes of the past ?
Could it be with newer generations less is more ?
Have you noticed the popularity of x factor and strictly ?
I notice on these programs where the public gets to vote that even to the horror of the judges it is not the best singers or dancers that win but the ones whose personality comes through . If the public like the person the singing is not the main vote puller .

phil

I know because of experience from working with children all my life as either as a child development worker or a children's entertainer. Obviously you can't just leave a prop on it's own to entertain children. What a ridiculous comment. Lol

Sure, you can hammer a nail with a wrench, but that don't make you a better carpenter just because you can. Big deal. Entertaining with a rope and old puppet is using props. Do we need big props? All depends on what story we are telling, and our own character. Why do people buy fancy clothes when it shouldn't really matter what we wear when it's all about how we present ourselves. Just as long as we are entertaining, that's all that matters...NOT!

As far a big props versus little props, that's not what I am getting at. The props we use is important. Can Kimmo do a rope trick without a rope? I don't care how good you think he is, I don't think he could.

Children are stimulated by colors just like we adults still are. Colorful props that serve a purpose in our storytelling is can be a great asset to our show. If you suck as a magician the prop won't change that, no arguement there.

Most storytellers use visual props, and I've seen comedians use props. What would Carrot Top be without his props?

Hi,
Your experiences differ from mine , I to have performed for children most of my life
I also have 5 children . In my experience they like things which they consider fun and things that make them laugh, they like adults who know about the tv they watch the games they play a d the latest music. They like you to be with it so to speak. I am not against props or colourful things . Indeed I use some myself . But I do think to a large extent less is more and less sometimes shows your personality a lot more .
Take a look at the second DVD of Gary Dunn keep them laughing DVD . For an example of minamal / propless entertainment for kids phil

I know because of experience from working with children all my life as either as a child development worker or a children's entertainer. Obviously you can't just leave a prop on it's own to entertain children. What a ridiculous comment. Lol

Sure, you can hammer a nail with a wrench, but that don't make you a better carpenter just because you can. Big deal. Entertaining with a rope and old puppet is using props. Do we need big props? All depends on what story we are telling, and our own character. Why do people buy fancy clothes when it shouldn't really matter what we wear when it's all about how we present ourselves. Just as long as we are entertaining, that's all that matters...NOT!

As far a big props versus little props, that's not what I am getting at. The props we use is important. Can Kimmo do a rope trick without a rope? I don't care how good you think he is, I don't think he could.

Children are stimulated by colors just like we adults still are. Colorful props that serve a purpose in our storytelling is can be a great asset to our show. If you suck as a magician the prop won't change that, no arguement there.