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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-11-27 10:36, mastermindreader wrote: Yes.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
In regards to chiropractic, it's important to realize that there are many different types of chiropractors. The ones that I do consider quacks are the "upper cervical specialists." They're the ones who often claim that every disease on the planet can be cured just by cracking your neck.
I like the ones who are also trained in soft tissue and/or kinesiology. I don't think it's necessary to be in or near the Ocean to benefit from proper chiropractic care.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Try chiropractic medicine on a jellyfish. I tell you, it's more difficult than it looks.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 10:03, RNK wrote: Well, I would rather follow evidence based medicine and take a pill to improve than to have someone exert force on the vertebrae of my spine in order to restore a mysterious (and unproven) "innate intelligence" any day. Moreover, in your 2 cases, you say you had your knee and thumb worked on. But that's not your spine, so that's a deviation from traditional chiropractic treatment. To the extent that something may have worked, it's most likely due to the chiropractor mixing in standard medical treatment/physical therapy rather than due to any restoring of "innate intelligence." Anyway, the core claims of chiropractic simply have no merit. None. A grocer, inspired by a spiritualist medium in his search for "the single cause of all disease" made it all up. Now, I'm not saying Palmer (the founder) was intentionally out to defraud people - more likely he was sincere, albeit uninformed and ignorant about the workings of the human body. From http://www.chirobase.org/01General/skeptic.html... "Palmer contrived the notion that "subluxations" of the spine impinge nerves, interfering with nerve flow, which he dubbed the Innate Life Force, and that all a practitioner had to do was to adjust the spine -- the healing powers of nature would do the rest. Neither Palmer nor any other chiropractor has ever been able to reliably demonstrate the existence of "subluxations," much less validate their importance to health and disease. Nevertheless, chiropractic has thrived and now has about 60,000 practitioners in the United States. When chiropractors are challenged to explain precisely what effect nerve impingement is supposed to have upon a nerve impulse (i.e., frequency of propagation, amplitude, etc.), they either fall back upon metaphysical notions of the Innate Life Force or evoke one of many common ploys: •Make a virtue of their ignorance by retorting that they don't know how it works but that it does. •Claim that studies to determine the mechanism are now under way or just completed but unpublished (the "Oh, haven't you heard? You're behind the times!" ploy) •Change the official rhetoric by adding ambiguous language: "Pathological processes may be influenced by disturbances of the nervous system. . . . Disturbances of the nervous system may be the result of derangements of the musculoskeletal structure. Disturbances of the nervous system may cause or aggravate disease in various parts or functions of the body." [1] These three statements are true but do not support chiropractic's subluxation theory or the general notion that spinal problems are an underlying cause of disease. They do this while continuing to practice as if subluxations were an established reality." Anyway, I encourage you to do more research. The links I have posted are good resources, but I also recommend the book "Trick Or Treatment: The Undeniable Facts About Alternative Medicine." And the next time you visit your chiropractor, ask him if deafness can be cured by chiropractic treatment. Seriously. After all, that was the genesis and the validation of chiropractic. Best wishes. Ron :)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Why the false dichotomy?
Has there ever been a problem with pills that were not so much miracle cures as were originally claimed? Write as many words as you feel the need but medicine learns new stuff every day. Dismiss all you lime but to just make arrogant proclamations is not really credible. Has modern medicine started to change the tune they sing recently in relation to chiropractors? Just asking.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 10:22, RNK wrote: The evidence indicates that all life did indeed originate in the oceans. And why would that be absurd? It actually makes sense if you think about it. Your view of humans is quite egocentric. This planet is a continuum of life forms, with humans being a big brained ape. And of course there are things that humans can do better than animals, but there are many things that animals can do better than humans. We can't fly like birds, we can't survive in the oceans, we're helpless as infants, we're much weaker than many animals, our individual senses are inferior to other animals, etc. Furthermore, animals don't plan full scale war on other members of their own species. They don't as a rule, lie to, manipulate, or exploit their own species the way humans do. The "food chain" is all in the perspective. There are many "links" in the evolutionary chain. The combined fossil, DNA, genetic, and anthropological evidence overwhelmingly confirms our evolutionary link to the apes. In fact, we are technically apes! And the fact that there may be a gap between 2 particular links in the larger chain is irrelevant. It's like you saying that even though I can show you my baby photo, my age 2 photo, my age 8 photo, my age 20 photo, my age 35 photo, PLUS offer DNA and other evidence, that I am not the baby in the picture because I don't have an age 12 photo of myself. And then if I did come up with the age 12 photo, some would say that because I don't have an age 14 photo I could not be the baby. That goalpost will always be moved, and it's a disingenuous tactic. The evidence is there. And facts are indeed stubborn things. Here is a good source to explore the issues surrounding human origins: http://talkorigins.org/ And, as Bob has already pointed out, even the Vatican has acquiesced to the abundant evolutionary evidence that proves our ape ancestry. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts |
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On 2013-11-27 10:37, TomBoleware wrote: Nobody claims that science can explain everything, Tom. And of course there is uncertainty with scientific conclusions. Which is why science is always open to revision. Scientists are comfortable (as am I) with saying "I don't know." Indeed, that's how science progresses. If science claimed to know everything, then we would have come to a technological standstill a long time ago, no? On the other hand, religious dogma by it's very nature is NOT open to revision. So science is by far the best method we have towards progress and a better understanding of how the world works. But some people just aren't comfortable not knowing, so they invent explanations to fill the gap in their understanding. That's intellectually dishonest. Personally, I would rather admit my ignorance on a subject than to pretend that I know something I don't. Not sure how you can prove the "non-existence" of something. Or why that's relevant. I'll let you elaborate on that if you care to. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 19:21, Dannydoyle wrote: You mean evidence based medicine learns new stuff every day. Quack medicine does not. It relies on unscientific assertions of "meridians", "chakras", "like cures like", "innate intelligence", etc. And what "arrogant proclamations" are you referring to? By all means, do your own research. Let me know if anything I have said regarding the theory or history of chiropractic is untrue. Maybe you should ask, "has chiropractic begun incorporating modern medicine?" instead. Because you know what they call alternative medicine that works? They call it MEDICINE. Ron :)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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lunatik Inner circle 3225 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 21:40, Dannydoyle wrote: but have they changed their position in bed?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
The evidence does not indicate, it merely tends to persuade one of a fact in issue one way or the other.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/chiro......overview
Web md seems to think it has at least some validity. They do NOT call it quackery. So I guess your arrogant pronouncement would be a blanket statement about such things. Hey I don't particularly care either way. It is just that those who espouse such absolute truths for everyone are just often blind. You in this case are having trouble seeing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 11:22, RNK wrote: But it is the conclusion that fits the given evidence as it currently stands. If you have evidence promoting another theory, I'd be happy if you presented it.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I agree, Ed. What's far-fetched is cavalierly dismissing what we know about the origins of life in the oceans in favor of ancient mythology and metaphor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
I simply choose to see the difference in my FAITH and what is FACT.
I guess it is pretty much why they are two words, with two completely different meanings huh? It would be pretty dumb to limit our "knowledge" to what we knew 2,000 or so years ago wouldn't it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yep.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Was we here 2000 years ago?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-27 11:27, RNK wrote: I did not intend to imply that all chiropractors are quacks. One helped. One hurt.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-28 16:45, tommy wrote: Yes we was. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts |
Evidence means nothing if it's not believable. And the problem with age old fact is,
we like to adjust it to fit our own needs. Oh well, where we came from is not as important as where we going, and even there, we will probably still be wondering 'how'd I end up here.' Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
We met at nine
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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