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metaljohn Loyal user Montreal, QC 280 Posts |
So I finally started learning coin magic after a few years of always avoiding it. I'm a fan of using everyday objects. Even when I do cards, I usually use someone's deck. I just think it's better that way. However, coin magic uses half dollars which aren't very comon anymore. I'd rather use quarters since that's what people carry on them, but those aren't as big and harder to manipulate. Should I just continue practicing with half dollars or switch to quaters? What are your thoughts on the matter?
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
The bigger the coin, the easier it is to see, as long as you are comfortable handling that size. So bigger coins play better for bigger grops. But for one on one or small groups, miracles can be done with borrowed quarters!
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
I really think it depends on the sight distance of the spectator. A quarter is very appropriate for very close; half-dollars for almost all other close-up; dollars for a larger goup, stand-up stage. Also, distane and coin size depend on the sleights you use and angles you're working with. It's MUCH easier to "sell" a b******ped quarter extremely close-up than a dollar.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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latentimage Elite user No More Room In Hell.. 440 Posts |
Personally, there are several reasons that I continue to use half dollars. Here is the list:
- They fit nicely into my hands, and I can do sleights with them that I cannot do with quarters. - They are nice and loud with a cl**k p**s. Dollar coins are better, but I only use them sometimes. - I use Walking Liberty halves because I like the way the silver in particular wears. I also really like the way they look, and in my opinion are one of the coolest coins ever minted. When I do something with them, I get to tell people that. - There are tricks with gaffed coins that aren't possible without half dollar coins, or coins of equal size. Since it would look weird only using strange coins for those effects, I use the halves for everything. (With the exception of a quarter bend that I do...for that I "borrow" a quarter) - When I use my 64 Kennedys, I can tell the story of how they were given to me by my father. I like adding that in. - I do not carry any cash or coins of any kind anymore to pay for things, so if I'm going to carry change for an effect, I might as well make it something that's personal to me and visible to the audience. (Same visibility factor that Atom and Michael mentioned above) - I also hand out the coins for inspection anyway, so it doesn't matter what they are. Back when half dollars were more the norm, quarters and other change were still around too, and probably still more common. Magicians were still using half dollars instead of other denominations back then as well. I suspect that this was the case due to some of the reasons mentioned above. Best, Allen Posted: Nov 29, 2013 11:08pm Oh and one more thing. When a trick requires a switch, the new state quarters make that nearly impossible. It's just more reasonable to carry my own coins at that point, and if I'm going to carry them, they may as well be halves. For a PK bend, I have to bring a handful of quarters and let them choose one. That or only do it for someone who has a pocket full of change for some reason. Allen
"Come to the edge," he said, They Said "We Are Afraid," "Come to the edge," he said, They Came, He Pushed Them...And They Flew. -Apollinaire
"If there be a skeptical star, I was born under it. Yet I have lived all my days in complete astonishment." -W. MacNeile Dixon |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Because they aren't common any more! We are performing magic! I like using quarters too when it's an impromptu situation and I can borrow the coins from a spectator... but so what if we use uncommon coins? Since when have 10' rings that link together been common among muggles? Or bright red, blue, green, and yellow silks? Sponge balls? Copper or silver cups for cups and balls routines?
Sometimes, especially for very close-up and impromptu performances we do use common objects, usually because they are at hand. But quite often - for planned performances - we use very uncommon objects to perform our art. Not only is it acceptable, but it is quite often expected of us. Jim |
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
Well said J-MAC
My thought's exactly.. Todd |
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CraogMcKee New user BC, Canada 9 Posts |
I use a special mint coin, a 1949 Canadian Silver Dollar - it has an amazing story behind it that I use, and also bringing them out brings a sense of intrigue right away. It's not that people use half-dollars particularly, but people use the size. Cruise a coin shop or two, there are coins to suit every interest from sailing and flight to rock stars and any given country's history. Find a size you like, and then a coin with a story you can tell, and the oddity of pretending these coins are still normal and relevant goes away.
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Ekuth Inner circle Floating above my 1538 Posts |
Another agreement with J-Mac.
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
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HerbS New user 89 Posts |
For most of my life I used quarters for coin magic but recently when I decided to focus more intently on practicing I stepped up to half dollars. I think this was almost my way of saying 'now I'm a serious coin magician" more than anything, but lately I've been going back to quarters exactly because of how ordinary they are. The truth there is room for both approaches, although I do think that some of the exotic coins make the spectator think too much about the coin itself, which can be distracting from the actual effect. My tendency is always to want to use ordinary objects rather than utilize items that only exist in magic land and therefore seem like they could easily be gimmicked.
The thing is that the way things are going, before too long people won't be familiar with coins at all. Already we've seen the advent of tricks with cell phones, credit cards, etc. and I think that although it might take a couple generations, gradually there will be a shift away from coin magic toward magic with items that are more current. |
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
I disagree I think coin magic will stay popular.
And most laymen never think about gimmicked coins. Their first thought is very good sleight of hand. Any coin a person choose's too work with is fine. But whether it be a common or a exotic one. It's all in how the effect is presented. Todd |
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SmileAndNod Veteran user 316 Posts |
Old coins also allow for more conversation. A lot of the time when I bring out my Morgans I get asked lots of questions about them and people seem interested in seeing them. Quarters are boring. Half-dollars are too, but less so. People don't often see Silver Dollars.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
I agree with bowers and J-Mac here, I even agree with bowers agreeing with J-Mac here.
I think quarters, halves or dollar coins all have their place. Halves are much more popular to use for their comfortable size for most people and visibility. Dollar coins are much more visual but could be a bit more of a challenge to handle for many. Quarters are the coins that most specs would have on them for you to use to do a bit of impromptu magic. So it's all good really. The greater point is that people don't much care what coins you use, their greater experience in it all is what you do with them as to your magic. So common or uncommon, is not such a big deal. Whether people see a coin they know or don't know, just adds to the moments either in mystery or familiarity. Admittedly, people don't carry around Morgan dollars any more but they are real enough, you can spend them, sell them for more than they are actually worth in many cases, and they have size and presence that command attention. People are always happy to see them, whether they have seen them before or not, even whether they are real or replica. It's a very small part of the equation and overall dynamic, even if folks show interest in the coins themselves. It certainly can be helpful as to the moments, and I can't quite see how it would hurt.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Inviso Regular user 126 Posts |
I think the increased use of electronic commerce makes introducing any coins much easier.
"Here is how we used to pay for things, we had to carry around these heavy silver dollars..." As others have said, silver coins are beautiful items and spectators unfamiliar with them will likely enjoy the opportunity to handle them. Randy |
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ottphd Loyal user 243 Posts |
Bowers and J-Mac you hit the nail on the head!!
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
I use Kennedy 64's, not only do they look nice, they also sound nice. Beyond that, getting some nice gaffs, is pretty easy. I used to be a coin "purist" never using gaffs until I started with a shell, and a whole world opened up. Have a few gaffs and sets I use. I do wonder if, in the spectators mind, that the larger the coin the harder it is to do something fishy?
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
I think that too, Tom...that the specs believe the larger the coin the harder it is to do something fishy. But I believe this to be true along the somewhat relative lines that specs believe the closer they are to you, the less opportunity you have to pull a fast one or the better they are positioned to see more exactly what you're doing.
Of course, they are quite wrong as the closer they are, the more of a disadvantage they're at in the watching of movement up close behind the use of SOH. This is a dynamic that is hard to believe in the mind of a spec but it is quite true, and a grand advantage for the magi as he reconstructs the reality right before the spec's very eyes but all appears normal as magic happens.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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frankvomit Elite user 485 Posts |
Living in canada we got $1 and $2 coins both of which aren't quite as big as halves but they are visible and they are everyday objects here that can easily be borrowed so that's what I mainly use even though I do practice with halves and English pennies a lot toonies and loonies are pretty good contrasting colours as
Well so some great miracles can be accomplished like this and because they can be borrowed does make it stronger. Just lucky to be in canada for this reason anyway I guess. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
It seems to me that we are turning around the issue, properly but still around it.
Magic should start from the audience and not totally stem from performers' preferences. Thus the conditions under which each of us performs is paramount. If you mainly perform impromptu for friends and acquantances, the "quarter" preference finds some ground. This being said, silver halves bring along several inferences that are appreciable. They suggest value which transfer to the appreciation of magic. They suggest differently than quarters the absence of gaffing (dammaging) of precious coins. Now admittedly several of us are using non silver halves for performer's comfort and economical reasons. Personally, being French I'm using, even in the US, some old sterling silver 10 Francs coins (1mm less in diametre than a Barber). This makes the coins acceptable (French coins with a French guy: psychological proximity) AND value of the coin (pre-supposition that you don't do lousy magic with great coins) However I discovered that justifying what drove us to use precious coins is not wasted time. I claim that I gained them in an international magicians' competition where special coins were not allowed. This is to say that, to answer the initial concern of the thread, it is important to ascertain the performing circumstances AND to establish "proximity" between the audiencce and the props. For example (since it has been mentioned in the thread) my sponge balls are make up sponges, and by the way I just noticed new ovoid types of make up sponges at Sephora that I immediately bought. So getting the props as close to what spectators can relate to in every day life, does increase the impact of magic. In the same logic, I developped a routine using tea cups and aluminum foil balls even though some well known performers had already, along the "prowimity lines", used grapes, olives, muscades (French for nutmeg)... The concern of performer losing track of the desirable "proximity" of props and of the audiences feeling for magic with common objects (even when they are not: silver coins are not common objects), and using nickel half dollars or corcheted balls and silver cups is more performer centered than audience centered. So, in my opinion, it does matter what sort of coins we use but the more adapted to the performing circumstances they are, the better. Yet there is another input from the initial effect chosen in the show. If we let coins appear from nowhere initially (close up or parlour), why should we let cheap coins appear and not precious ones? Is magic mean or generous with the audience as well as the performer? Is it precious or cheap? Along the same line, because people (even French) rarely had an opportunity to touch such precious coins, I had some copper plated (both sides and also one side only for a copper silver coin) and some gold plated (with tamed gold like the gold Indian Head American coin) This also helps to open with a large cheap looking copper coin and, magic helping, keep on with sterling silver coins but finishing with the same coin but in gold that can be handed over and that, according to my experience, spectators are happy to have a chance to handle and do it with real respect. One last point linked to the above: what could prevent us to use in one act some quarters in a routine and some silver halves or dollars in another routine? Quarters address closeness, larger silver coins suggests performance value. Thus with a proper script why not adress the logic from moving from one to the other? As a conclusion, I'd suggest to have a friendly script to initially (subtly) suggest why we use whatever type of coins we are using.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
Add my thumbs up for J-Mac and Bowers.
Half Dollars not being common is a misguided thought. That direction of thinking irks the hell out of me. Have fun with your limited perspective on coin magic. |
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rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
I guess Jumbos are off the list. I predict your outlook on coin magic will change in 5 months for many reasons as you will discover.
Revised: Have fun and discovery with your journey into coin magic! That should make me sound less of an arse pit. |
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