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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Loosing work while defending hypnotism to laymen (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mindpunisher
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The shrinking head illusion does have some parallels to hypnosis. Its a great example how your perception and senses can be manipulated. It is an induction of a sort that takes you from what you would experience as "normal" to something you "see" which isn't normality.

Hypnosis is just another way to achieve that. On stage you see an amplified version of the people. you see them more animated, more imaginative and experiencing hallucinations negative hallucinations etc Their ability to respond to suggestions heightened way beyond every day normal occurrence. An expanded "trance" personality. If this were not the case and people were just going along it would be boring no one would be convinced and no one would buy tickets.

.

However its just an example of how the mind works only heightened and out of an every day context. The same process happens all the time on a daily basis in every interaction you make.

Those that do hypnosis and believe it doesn't exist are set up or conditioned to have a negative hallucination. To ignore ANY evidence that hypnosis exists filter it out and hold on to their belief that it doesn't.... And I can almost hear (auditory hallucination of mine)them saying because I believe I can only see that it exists. Either way its a double bind this process is around us all the time we can't escape it. Whether you perceive the belief of the existence of hypnosis exists or doesn't = has the head shrunk or has it grown? The real answer is - it depends upon how you have been per-conditioned. Stage hypnosis is just a brilliant example of how perception can be manipulated through conditioning.

Its not a question of whether it exists or not its more like if it doesn't exist then neither do we
Vlad Grigorescu
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DING DONG!
You: I want to talk to you about our lord savior Jesus Christ.
Him: I'm an atheist, there is no God or Jesus.
You: But there is, you see, he did that and that, he really exists!
Him: No he didn't. And there is no he. You are insane.
You: I'm not, here, read this page from the bible.
...

What's next in your story?
That's the answer!
hypnofande
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When someone is hypnotised there is a whole range of phenomena you can demonstrate. They forget how to count, or forget their name, believe themselves to be a different gender etc etc. I don't know how that isn't enough for some people to indicate some sort of hypnosis is at play unless their only argument is that hypnotised people are "lying" or "just playing along".
Hypnosis - it's all in the imagination...
Paul Budd
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I think dmkraig said everything that needs saying on this matter. I've only been hypnotized one time (and I had a very old-school psychologist acquaintance do it). I was completely aware of what was happening the entire time and can remember everything that happened. Funny thing about hypnosis: you can learn a lot about a person whenever you discuss hypnosis with them (as you, rather painfully, have learned).
Many smart, independent, control-freak types think the whole thing to be this big embarrasing "oh, you're such a schmuck 'cause you got hypnotized" -type arrangement. They're just showing their obtuse, ignorant sides. There is substantial evidence to indicate that people of LOW intelligence are very hard to hypnotize. Hypnosis is really little more than a state of deep concentration.....nothing more.
There is a gentleman in the greater Kansas City area who is both a mental health practitioner and a stage hypnotist.......I personally disagree with that approach. I think one needs to either be one or the other.....not both.

Since you asked for advice, here's mine: abandon this argument.....it will lead nowhere. If the person wishes to judge your "sanity" based on this......then he's "told you" a great deal already about himself. Maybe you're the one who should take inventory of your relationship with that person, and possibly re-calibrate.

Best of luck!!
His face isn't really this long in-person!
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Dannydoyle
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Yes I agree. We further the cause of education by thinking of others who do not agree with us as "obtuse/ignorant". Good approach.

I agree. Abandon the "argument". BUT CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION! Why does it have to be everyone agrees? Why such entrenched positions? What a boring world it would be if everyone agreed.

But the arrogant pronouncement of others positions as ignorant or obtuse is probably what causes more than a large part of the problem.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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There is no problem if you just walk away. Everyone is entitled to their own "reality". Just like operating on stage you don't have the time or need to hypnotize those less responsive I don't have the time to argue with someone who is skeptical. They are entitled to live in their own subjective reality. These days I just smile and only share my knowledge with those that are interested in joining me in my reality.

Who cares life is short.
Paul Budd
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Quote:
On 2014-01-17 13:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes I agree. We further the cause of education by thinking of others who do not agree with us as "obtuse/ignorant". Good approach.

I agree. Abandon the "argument". BUT CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION! Why does it have to be everyone agrees? Why such entrenched positions? What a boring world it would be if everyone agreed.

But the arrogant pronouncement of others positions as ignorant or obtuse is probably what causes more than a large part of the problem.


Danny, it appears you've read little of the discussion here, so I'll bring you up to speed:

The gentleman who started this is seemingly distressed over his personal/business relationship with this person, and the issue/discussion seems to've sparked "bad blood" between them.....a careful reading of the other party's statements, etc. would provide clarity on that matter. I never said people who disagree with me are ignorant or obtuse. If you, sir, insist that the grass is blue and the sky is green those are obtuse, ignorant stances to take because the evidence indicates otherwise. This isn't a matter of everyone agreeing or not agreeing......this person is distressed over the other party's choice to ignore good, solid evidence about what hypsosis is/isn't....that's all.
"You have a right to your own opinion, but not your own facts." --a statement certainly uttered by someone arguably more intelligent than I and quite possibly less obtuse than you.
His face isn't really this long in-person!
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Dannydoyle
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Sure yea. More sarcasam.

There are some pretty good facts on the other side of the equasion. Sorry to break it to you. Your own belief does not validate hypnosis as FACT.

I happen to be in the camp of thinking it does exist. But that does not mean it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Science is science after all and a really sarcastic guy quoted a smart guy once saying you are not entitled to your own facts. Use all the sarcasm you like. It does not strengthen your arguement.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Actually I might be wrong and I am not trying to stir it up. I spoke to someone recently who is involved in research at a very high level not so much with hypnosis but has access to a huge scientific database. He is someone I am working with at the moment. And hes one of those guys that researches things before he starts working with someone.

According to him there is lots of research to suggest or conclude that hypnosis exists. Those that claim it doesn't are coming from a place of "being the expert" and leveraging their "qualifications" to form an opinion. He said there was no real research that concludes it doesn't exist.

Im not big on academic research so if any one has research that proves it doesn't exist I would like to run it by him. Just out of curiosity.
Dannydoyle
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If you were big on academic research, you would be disappointed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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So would my clients.... I don't care about it. I am just curious to see if "my man" is right and that there is plenty of research that proves it exists but none that proves it doesn't. He is neutral has no real investment in hypnosis. he said he always looks into things when he works with someone. In fact he had read books in the past that said hypnosis was crap. And because he also works with scientists and has to protect his credibility he did some research.So he didn't really know until he looked at the academic research. Now he just accepts that it exists for the reasons above.

I don't care one way or another just curious if he is correct or not.
Dannydoyle
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There is a lot of research on each side of those he issue. None of it conclusive. I find it fascinating how arrogant some get about their own entrenched position. Not you MPEG.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Academia is a waste of time in most cases after all its just academic!Who cares but if it makes someone feel better working with me then I guess its ok
I,m not going to argue. A better argument is who cares if it exists or not but does it have any value?
Dannydoyle
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The placebo effect has value.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
newcomer
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The original poster may be surprised to hear that a LOT (but by no means all) of stage hypnotists actually agree with his friend! I hope that doesn't traumatise him too much! But I agree. It really isn't worth arguing about and getting so intense about it to the point of ruining a relationship.
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