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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Sign Language Faux Pas at Madiba's Funeral (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2013-12-11 14:57, Chessmann wrote:
No, but respect for the deceased's family at a funeral is a line I draw, personally.


It might not have been clear from my first post, but I agree completely. It is deeply disrespectful.

But, there is a basic human part of me that does find the absurdity funny. I don't approve. But it falls in that strange psychological space that can find mirth in the awful. Rather like gallows humour.
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The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
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mastermindreader
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It's a good thing that it was broadcast with closed captions for the hearing impaired. (As are all major events of this nature. Which, of course, raises the question of why a sign interpreter is needed in the first place.)
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On 2013-12-11 16:12, Bazinga wrote:
.... I'm in a no-tolerance mood today so I shouldn't say what I'd want to do to him, so I'll turn it down and say he should be tied to a post, his shirt removed, and be flogged - one strike for each minute he did that. And it should be televised.

That oughta do it.

Bazinga!


Sure. Publicly flog a black man one hundred and eighty times in South Africa for committing what is at most a non-violent misdemeanor. Isn't that the exact sort of thing that was going on during Apartheid? Wonder what Mandela would have thought about that.
Marlin1894
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On 2013-12-11 16:39, mastermindreader wrote:
(As are all major events of this nature. Which, of course, raises the question of why a sign interpreter is needed in the first place.)


For the deaf people in attendance would be my guess. Unless it was shown on screens in the stadium with closed caption. Not everyone everywhere is capable of pulling closed captioning. In some cases the translation it's as bad as this guy, you should try watching a show with CC and the sound on, sometimes the translation is ridiculous. And it tends to lag and skip a lot of words, especially on live events.
critter
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When a friend of ours died in high school our other friend was sobbing when she told us. We knew a lot of guys named Tom at the time and someone said "which Tom?" Without thinking about it I said "Dead Tom" and everyone started laughing. I was embarrassed but it provided something we all needed.

That said, I don't think this scammer knew any of those people- and the article does indicate that it's a scam. So I don't equate the two. I don't know how offended I am, but I think it's a creep move.
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Devious
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I'm still listening to Midnight Express.
Please keep it down fellas.

"Dead Tom" freakin' hilarious Critter Done!
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Marlin1894
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On 2013-12-11 16:51, Devious wrote:
I'm still listening to Midnight Express.
Please keep it down fellas.



Pretty insensitive of you to flaunt your hearing in this particular thread. I think a flogging is in order!
arthur stead
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I'm inclined to go along with the theory that this "big speech sign language expert" is on the payroll. Unfortunately, when the South African government changed hands in 1984, many of the ANC henchmen were given positions of authority for which they were not qualified. Despite the obvious chaotic consequences, this practice still continues today.

One of the first acts of the new South African Parliament was that white business owners would have to forfeit one third of their annual income. The idea was that their "contribution" would be allocated to to "Previously Disenfranchised Persons" ... (or something like that ... I may have the term wrong).

My brother, who lives in Pretoria, has an air conditioning business (which incidentally, has for almost 40 years provided employment for more than 30 black workers).

Anyway, at the end of the year 1985, he was informed that someone from the government would come to his house to collect the annual payment. But on the appointed day, instead of a social worker (which he had been expecting), a shiny new Rolls Royce drove up, and a menacing male gangster type jumped out, wearing a very expensive, golden suit. He took the check from my brother, looked at the amount, grunted, and was on his way.
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Chessmann
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On 2013-12-11 15:47, mastermindreader wrote:

No matter his motive, the real blame for this lies with those who had the responsibility to thoroughly vet everyone who was anywhere near the VIP section of the stadium. And making sure that people are actually qualified to do the jobs they have volunteered for seems like a reasonable idea in view of what happened.



No, Bob. First and foremost, the real blame lies with the man who did this. He, and he alone is the one who planned this and then carried it out.

I could only imagine him being brought to trial and trying to plead, "Hey, don't blame me! Blame the people who didn't catch me!"

And Bob, if you think this would be funny if done at the funeral of your immediate family members, well, there's not much more for me to say.

I understand that you can't police all humor, and that humor will often catch someone the wrong way, but like I said, at a funeral...
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Chessmann
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On 2013-12-11 16:22, Marlin1894 wrote:
He's not some mentally ill guy who just walked on the stage or slipped past security. Or someone who just happened to volunteer for this event. He's some guy, that for some reason, the ANC continues to trot out as an interpreter. This isn't the first event he's worked for the ANC. The first deaf woman elected to the Parliament of South African said she complained about the guy over a year ago.

You can see him standing up there right next to Jacob Zuma during the ANC Centenery Celebrations in 2012. The link that Devious gave even refers to it "At that appearance, a deaf person in the audience videotaped the event and gave it to the federation for the deaf, which analyzed the video, prepared a report about it and a submitted a formal complaint to the ANC, Druchen said." I'd be willing to bet he's no volunteer either. He's on someones payroll for sure.


Now *that* is wild!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Chessmann
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Bob, to be clear, I meant if someone did this to your family member's funeral *as a prank*.

From what people are saying, though, it is sounding less and less like a prank (which is how I first took it), and more and more like a guy who is just making money for a skill he doesn't have! Just doing again what he has done for them before.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
TomBoleware
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I hate seeing those signing people standing up there beside speakers.

But still, I think this guy should be taken out behind the wood shed and signed real good.


Tom
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balducci
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Apparently there are over 200 types of sign languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sign_languages

"There are perhaps two hundred sign languages in use around the world today. The number is not known with any confidence; new sign languages emerge frequently through creolization and de novo (and occasionally through language planning). In some countries, such as Sri Lanka and Tanzania, each school for the deaf may have a separate language, known only to its students and sometimes denied by the school"

I've read a number of the media reports about this story and the people / experts being interviewed sure make the guy sound guilty of faking it, but at the same time I'm not sure what the politics of the deaf institutions in South Africa are like. I wonder whether there may be a power play going on here, with one particular school and deaf federation in South Africa bad mouthing someone using an alternative system they do not support. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happened.
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Indeed. We have our own at the card table.
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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-12-11 17:36, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-11 15:47, mastermindreader wrote:

No matter his motive, the real blame for this lies with those who had the responsibility to thoroughly vet everyone who was anywhere near the VIP section of the stadium. And making sure that people are actually qualified to do the jobs they have volunteered for seems like a reasonable idea in view of what happened.



No, Bob. First and foremost, the real blame lies with the man who did this. He, and he alone is the one who planned this and then carried it out.

I could only imagine him being brought to trial and trying to plead, "Hey, don't blame me! Blame the people who didn't catch me!"

And Bob, if you think this would be funny if done at the funeral of your immediate family members, well, there's not much more for me to say.

I understand that you can't police all humor, and that humor will often catch someone the wrong way, but like I said, at a funeral...


I understand where you are coming from, but I'd actually hire someone to do something like this at my funeral, but that's just me. (You should have seen some of the wakes we've had. We accidentally set indoor trees on fire in the church at my dad's funeral which created a pretty memorable moment for everyone.) I'm also puzzled why some are advocating a public physical flogging of this man. I thought that was the kind of thing Mandela fought against.

And I'm surprised you don't even acknowledge that those who allowed this guy in bear a significant portion of the blame. Particularly regarding security.

Yes, it was disrespectful. But I guarantee this will be a highlight on this weeks Saturday Night Live.

I'm starting to seriously consider the theory that this guy may just be a hired goon given what was supposed to be basically a no-show job in order to justify his paycheck for other activities. You know, like mob guys given ceremonial positions that normally don't require them to show up. If the whole thing wasn't a joke, that's really one of the few motives I can think of. Of course, as has been suggested, this might also be evidence of internecine warfare between competing deaf factions. (But that would strike me as pretty funny, too.)
balducci
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"But I guarantee this will be a highlight on this weeks Saturday Night Live."

The Today Show tried that ...

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/201......mmunity/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Yes, but Saturday Night Live and the Today Show are two different beasts. After Miley Cyrus offended half the country, SNL immediately booked her as a host and she proceeded to do the same routine that caused the controversy in the first place.

I wonder if the deaf community was offended back in the days when Garrett Morris was doing the "closed captions" for the hearing impaired.
Bazinga
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Quote:
On 2013-12-11 16:45, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-11 16:12, Bazinga wrote:
.... I'm in a no-tolerance mood today so I shouldn't say what I'd want to do to him, so I'll turn it down and say he should be tied to a post, his shirt removed, and be flogged - one strike for each minute he did that. And it should be televised.

That oughta do it.

Bazinga!


Sure. Publicly flog a black man one hundred and eighty times in South Africa for committing what is at most a non-violent misdemeanor. Isn't that the exact sort of thing that was going on during Apartheid? Wonder what Mandela would have thought about that.

I did not say that with any thought about his skin color, and I still don't care. I was refering to flogging as in the oldtime English method of punishment. I sincerely hope no one thought otherwise.

I was taught at an early age that showing disrespect to the dead is a morally capital offense. I have no tolerance for it. Unintentional is different and often seems to come at just a needed moment. But purposeful... flog him or take him to the woodshed.

Bazinga!
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If you think that flogging (which is whipping) a shirtless black man (180 times, no less, which is a likely death sentence) is an appropriate punishment for a non-violent offense there's really nothing else to say.
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Bob Cassidy,

GET THIS STRAIGHT!!!!!

BLACK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

I can see why people get so p****ed off at you. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH, TWIST MY WORDS, ADD OR SUBTRACT TO OR FROM WHAT I SAY EVER AGAIN!

Got it?

Bazinga!
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