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gmsmagic1 Elite user 405 Posts 
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Every time the topic of "Sucker Tricks" comes up in the Café, I notice that the conversations always seem to eventually evolve into a debate over how many "Sucker Tricks" can be used in a show or whether they should be used at all.
I think it's about time for a reality check! The term "Sucker Tricks" is nothing more than a label we as magicians have created, which assumes that we all do these tricks the exact same way with the intent of making a sucker out of someone or everyone. It boggles my mind when I see how many magicians refuse to even consider using any "Sucker Trick" in their kids show because of the stigma associated with the label we created, and because they assume that nobody ever deviates from the routines as they were marketed. There is absolutely no relevance to even debating whether a "Sucker Trick" benefits a show or not since this all boils down to how the entertainer uses their props! I have never used any "Sucker Tricks" the way they were marketed, not only because I want to be unique and creative, but also because I never have a sucker ending in any of my routines. I have just found that some of the best kids show props out there happen to be derived from "Sucker Tricks" because most of these effects were designed by nature to generate maximum interaction while animating characters or objects. For example, anyone can take a "Sucker Trick" like Peek-A-Boo Bunny and use it exactly as marketed to eventually vanish the bunny and make everyone feel like they have been fooled. But if you never actually vanish the bunny, or if you immediately produce the bunny from say a black change bag as if to imply that the bunny simply jumped from the hat to the hole - and then carry on with your story, you've in essence turned a sucker trick into a great puppet show and evolved your magic act into a real life cartoon! I encourage every magician to look beyond the routines marketed with magic props and to look beyond the stigma associated with labels we created such as "Sucker Tricks". Otherwise, you may just find yourself getting caught up in a paradigm that strangles your imagination and deprives both you and your audience of achieving much greater heights of entertainment. Every magic trick is designed to fool your audience, so if we really want to get caught up in semantics, one could argue that any magic trick is sucker worthy. But remember that our ultimate goal is to entertain kids - not fool them. There are many magic tricks and props out there that get overlooked because of how they were marketed or labeled. "Sucker Tricks" is only one example. Look beyond the labels. Seek out the positive features in any effect, and find ways to exploit those attributes for complimenting your performance style and for contributing to the overall entertainment value of your show. A little creativity can go a long way. - Gary |
danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts
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Good post Gary, I agree.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-12-17 15:31, gmsmagic1 wrote: That's worthy of printing-out and posting on the wall.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
pbj100 Special user 516 Posts
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Hi,
I would be interested in hearing a solid example routine where you have done this ..not to steal the routine but for educational perposes phil |
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Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts
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He is a routine. I use it in my Super Hero show. I ask the audience who their favorite superhero is. I then tell them that mine is Flash. I ask if they know what his super power is. They say he's fast. I ask if they know how fast he is. I then mention that I have always wondered how fast he is and if he is faster than our eyes. Lets play a game and see if Flash is faster than our eyes. I take out four cards. The first card is a picture of Flash, the three other cards are pictures of eyes. I remove one eye and place in back in the envelope. I ask the children to keep their eyes on Flash. I flip Flash over, and then an eye card. One eye is still visible.
I hold one flipped card up and ask if Flash is here. Then raise the other card and ask if they think he is here. I then turn one card around to reveal an eye. I then remove an eye and go through it again with the two flipped cards. I turn the card around that they think is Flash, but it's the other eye. I then proceed with just one card, and when the card is turned around it's another eye. I go to the envelope an pull out what was supposed to be the eye and discover it's Flash. I then say, " I guess Flash is faster than our eyes. That is just the jiff of the routine, probally poorly written out but only written out to show how a bashful bunny type sucker trick could be used.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts
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I was about 13 (maybe 14)when my parents bought me a Mitchel Kanter DIE BOX. (Still have it!) I read and followed the instructions. (YUP! word for word) How was I to know--Henning Nelms hadn't written his book yet?
After a few years, I had met a few old pro's who steered me in the right direction, and the die box, change bag, square circle, milk pitcher (ETC.!)were parked on the shelf, and I learned to use my hands (and slowly my personality). At 19, I joined the Navy, and the 30 minute act fit in a cigar box sized leather shaving kit. I found a 'vest pocket agent' in Norfolk, who kept be busy. I made all the money I needed, and DID NOT CASH A NAVY PAY CHECK FOR FOUR YEARS. I still had a sucker trick (silk to egg). But, it was not a 'BLUFF' type presentation like the die box! Using the gray cells (like Hercule Poirot) I analyzed sucker tricks in general. I've divided them into three types. The "bluff" type--die box, hippity hop rabbit type, fraidy cat rabbit, etc. the performer tries to bluff his way through the effect. The "oops" type--magician "accidentally"(?) drops the balled up torn(?) napkin, and offers to show how the trick is done, since the audience now knows (???) how it's done anyway, The "I'm a nice guy and I'm going to teach you a trick" type--silk to egg, color changing silk,etc. About 1970, I was booked in a mall in Detroit. Karrell Fox called and said: "Don't book a motel! Karlin and Darin are gone to a summer camp. You can have their room, and we'll have a week long mini convention! It took at least 5 seconds to accept his offer! Every night we had a session. One night we were discussing SUCKER TRICKS. Karrell's point was that too many "magicians" didn't understand the psychology involved. Our job is to ENTERTAIN! --NOT "PUT DOWN" THE AUDIENCE. We ended the evening by agreeing that it was important to "SOFTEN THE SUCKERING". I use the color change silk to open as it gives me an opportunithy to converse with the audience (INVOLVEMENT!!!INTERACTION!!!). When I've stolen the gaff and my left hand is clean, the audience is burning that hand! Instead of saying: "No, you're wrong, this hand is empty!" I say: "Oh! you think that there is a yellow handkerchief crumpled up in this hand? Well, when I first saw a magician do a trick like this, I thought so, too! I was just as SURPRISED as you are when the magician did THAT! (show hand empty) and the audience did THIS!" (I clap my hands --applauding) This is my opener! I've now teased them a bit, but let them know that I was SURPRISED (N O T F O O L E D) --snd I've "taught" them how to respond! This never fails to get a big laugh--and a BIG MITT! They now feel that I'm a nice guy--and I never need to ask them to applaud. When I "style" at the end of a routine, (I do NOT BOW!)they applaud. I go into this at some length in the book.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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A Show By Joe Elite user Long Island 407 Posts
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I worked on a different presentation of the Die Box for Christmas. I start by telling a story of how I almost didn't get any presents one Christmas because I spotted Santa Claus on my roof. I used the box to represent Santa's sleigh, and a big hat for the chimney. I tell how the Die is a present, and Santa was going to sent it down the chimney, but that when he saw me, he quickly put it back in the sleigh. I call up a volunteer, and dress him/her as an elf.I explain that I was tossing and turning all night, back and forth in my bed, which I tilt the box back and forth. After some funny business, I finally bring out a Red cloth to represent Santa's sack, drape it over the box and then lay it over the hat. With that, and everyone's help and believing in holiday magic, my present appeared down the chimney.
I only did it once for a party for 6-7 year olds, but it went over well. |
charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-12-17 19:42, Dick Oslund wrote: Thanks for sharing this. I have reworked my show to approach my presentation this way. Reading your post reinforced the need to entertain the audience. I am going to go over my show content again and filter it in my mind with this post as the filter. |
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wwhokie1 Special user 512 Posts
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Well said. It's only a sucker trick if you use it as a sucker trick. It all comes back to how you treat your audience.
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wwhokie1 Special user 512 Posts
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Quote:
That is so true. I have seen magic tricks that I thought were really not very magical and I would never consider performing them. Then I saw someone perform that same trick in a creative, original way, and they just blew me away. Magic is not in the trick, it is in the performance. The magician creates the magic, the trick is just an illusion. mark |
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A Show By Joe Elite user Long Island 407 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-12-17 19:42, Dick Oslund wrote: |
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cwbny Loyal user 211 Posts
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What a great thread, Gary. Such a good point. I'm always surprised at what magicians label "sucker tricks." I'd define it as a trick so simple that the audience can figure it out; the magician then turns the tables by proving the audience wrong. (Of course this can be done without the sting. I'm just creating a basic definition)
So tricks that I'd put in the "Sucker Trick" category include Hippity Hop Rabbits, Fraidy Cat Rabbit, and ABC Stung. Often tricks like Sucker Silk To Egg and Sucker Torn & Restored Napkin get lumped into the Sucker Trick category (heck, "sucker" is even in their names), but I'd classify these as "Teach-A-Tricks." Unlike a Sucker Trick, in a Teach-A-Trick, the magician demonstrates how to perform an easy trick before turning the tables and eventually wowing the audience. In this case, the sting is less harsh because the audience isn't shouting that they know how the trick is done. The magician doesn't prove them wrong in any way. Incidentally, a Sucker Trick can easily be presented as a Teach-A-Trick and vice versa. There's another category that I'm not really sure why it's been lumped in with Sucker Tricks. This category includes Run Rabbit Run and Peek-A-Boo Bunny. Not even sure what I'd label these type of effects as (Inanimate Object Takes Over Trick?). I believe the sucker association probably came from the kids shouting that they know where the object is ("it's in the hat!" "it's behind the door!"), but I don't think that equates Sucker Trick since they aren't trying to call the magician out on how the trick is accomplished. The sting is lesser here than a traditional sucker trick I think because the inanimate object has come to life, so if it's not where it's expected to be, that's just that old rascally rabbit (etc) being silly again. A magician might have a Sucker Trick, a Teach-A-Trick, and an Inanimate Object Takes Over Trick and think all three can't be performed in the same show simply because they've all (for some reason) been lumped into the one same category by other magicians (not audiences). Let your auditnce's reactions and feedback define your show, not the labels and rules set by other magicians. Rules are a great guideline for starting out, but it all eventually boils down to you, your character, and your audiences. (Written on my iPhone so I apologize for grammar issues) Thanks again, Gary, for starting this thread. - Christopher |
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pbj100 Special user 516 Posts
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Hi,
I understand your posts though the thread that prompted this asked about the use of sucker tricks. If you take the props for a sucker trick and do an effect that is not a sucker effect .... Then clearly it is no longer a sucker effect and therefore no longer under scrutiny . In hard reality most magicians will use the routines as is or close to . Some will try to turn the ending back to themselves. Yes you could possibly do a different effect with the prop but then you are not doing a sucker effect . I agree for example the are 1000 of routines with silk ha kerchiefs but if you took the silks from a sucker trick and used them say for a blendo ... Then it is not a sucker trick so is no longer valid for a discussion on sucker tricks phil |
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gmsmagic1 Elite user 405 Posts
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Hi Phil,
Without realizing it, you've actually eloquently answered your own question in the process of asking it, but since you misread the intent behind my initial post above, you're not quite recognizing this fact yet. I never asked about the use of "Sucker Tricks" in my original post as you stated. I intentionally kept putting quotes around those words to point out that this term is nothing more than a label magicians have used to identify these types of props, so we should stop basing discussions around labels and we should definitely not refrain from using props simply because of how they were labeled. And for all the reasons you just gave, we should stop having preconceived notions about how every trick out there will be used since we as entertainers can mold a routine around any props to achieve the desired effect. Now to your point, you are sadly correct in assuming that most magicians use effects exactly as marketed or done by others. I prefer not to encourage that behavior since these entertainers are confining their own true potential in the process. Instead of criticizing the props or the effect or ruling them out of your own show, criticize how most magicians use them today. That would be a more valid approach if given in a constructive way. You said that "Sucker Tricks" don't get scrutinized if they are used creatively. My observation is that "Sucker Tricks" always get scrutinized because most critics never ask how the effect is being used or suggest other usages. They instead focus on the props, and not on the entertainment value and potential they present to us as entertainers if used creatively. The message behind this thread was to stress that we should stop accepting labels at face value and instead encourage creativity for the betterment of our art. I hope this possibly clarifies things a little for you since your points are very valid. Sincerely, Gary |
MichaelDouglas Special user Portland, Oregon 766 Posts
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I agree and I don't let the labels bother me. I just stay away from the attitude of "Ha ha, I fooled you. I'm smart and you're not." The traditional sucker trick and degenerate into that if not careful. I sometimes act like I'm as surprised as they are, or act as if..."ooops, sorry, it's not supposed to do that.....ooh this is embarrassing it did that again!"
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-12-19 08:44, gmsmagic1 wrote: Excellent. So that means... Do tricks that fit your show and not just because they are new (sucker tricks or not). When I toured the country, I would stop at shops and ask "what's old?" This led me to an introduction of an effect that always received a great applause: "I found this next effect in an old magic shop on the top shelve covered in a layer of dust. They said they didn't know what it did, didn't know how it worked and didn't have the instructions. So I bought it........... I took it home and a week later showed it to the owner. He was amazed and delighted. He said If He Knew What It Did, When He Sold It To Me, He Would Have Charged Double! ... I hope you enjoy watching this as much as I like performing it for you".
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
NocturnalMagic New user 96 Posts
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Love me some SMM Pizza Box. Well said Gary, and for the majority of my act uses the kids, its 1 of 3 effects I do that does not. Would also like to know how you like the Iscream I sent you?
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RNK Inner circle 7527 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-12-19 18:00, NocturnalMagic wrote: I performed the IScream in two shows last weekend- went over great! Both the kids and adults loved it! RNK
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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Don't be a sucker. Always control the trick. Don't let the trick control you.
The presentation is what counts, not the name. |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Don't Let Labels Like "Sucker Tricks" Hold You Back (5 Likes) | |
Posted: Dec 17, 2013 08:31 pm 
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