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TerrorInt Regular user 142 Posts 
I'm interested in having a bunch of different selfworking mathematical card tricks that end at different known card positions in the deck. For example, this one from mismag822 goes through a variety of bizarre steps to end at the 34th card, and so you can base a prediction on the card in that position:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vN31w09580 Are there any others like this that go through random or unlikely steps to consistently end on a predictable card? I am interested in both simple principles (like the mismag822 trick) and more complicated ones (like Gilbraith), as long as they are selfworking, and especially if the spectator can do the handling. I figure if anyone would know tricks of this nature, this is the place to find them! 

Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts 
PM me if you like as direct answers are easily searchable and thus risk exposure.
I may not get back to you immediately as I am not on The Café as much as I was before, but, I'll get back to you ASAP. 

TerrorInt Regular user 142 Posts 
Sent. Thanks.


fvdbeek Elite user 490 Posts 
I thought it was Simon Aronson who had a trick called Whispering Jokers. Two cards are selected and are always at the 18th and 43th position.


C_Biskit New user United States 82 Posts 
If I'm not mistaken, there are a few tricks like this in Royal Road to Card Magic.
Cheers Andy 

Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts 
Quote:
On 20140116 02:48, fvdbeek wrote: Oh, it's MUCH more than that! You might be thinking of an effect published in The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks by Ladson Butler called The Whispering Queens. Anyhow, the Simon Aron effect is based upon a principle that allows for a huge number of applications. The effect that is the most basic application of this principle  and a VERY strong effect it is  is titled Prior Commitment. Later in the book Try the Impossible, Mr. Aronson and Dave Solomon provide the mathematical proof for this principle. Anyhow, a LOT more happens in the Aronson effect than just the two cards showing up at specific positions  and, they don't HAVE to end up at those positions which is the REAL beauty of the method.. Moreover, there are perhaps 1012 applications of this principle and each effect looks quite different from the others. Best of all, this principle does not look mathematical  there really is no "counting"  and if you understand the proof, you can devise a lot of effects and obviously modify the existing effects. I've also given the OP three other names to research who have done work that he is seeking. Slainte, Vlad 

Rogerbest Regular user 108 Posts 
Shuffled deck.
1020 force. Selected card ends up 10th from the top. 

JoeHohman Special user Erie 626 Posts 
Last week I was rereading Harry Lorayne's "The Magic Book." I don't recall the name of the effect, but here is a brief desciption: After the spectator has shuffled the cards, the magi writes down a prediction and places it between two cards, which are set aside in the spectator's pocket.
The magi then deals a large number of cards faceup on the table, and asks the spectator to select any four. The spectator does so, and the remaining cards are discarded. The magi then "deals up to ten" on each card: that is, if the card is a 3, he deals 7 more onto it; if it is an 8, he deals two more; and if it is a ten or a face card, he leaves it alone. The magician then asks the spectator to add the values of the initial four cards he selected. The spectator then deals out that many cards face down from the remaining deck. Before revealing this nth card, the spectator observes that the prediction in his pocket says, "The seven of clubs (or what have you)." The nth card is indeed the seven of clubs. Not only that, but the two cards that sandwich the prediction are revealed to be the two red sevens. Not only THAT, but the magician shows that he has been holding the seven of spades in HIS pocket all this time. I don't remember the name of this effect, but it can be found in the chapter called, "Practically SelfWorking Card Tricks." I think this is a pretty darn cool effect! 

murf Loyal user San Antonio, TX 255 Posts 
The trick referenced by th OP doesn't seem to be there anymore, bu the one described by JoeHohman uses the same princple as Ultra Card Divination from RRTCM, as recently discussed just a little bit down this page. Here are a few other simialr tricks:
Prophetic Card Discovery, Tarbel v2, p215. Impossible Prediction, Peter Warlock, The Magician Monthly, January 1939. A Baffling Prediction, M.Gardner, Mathematics, Magic and Mystery. Arithmancy, TLR March, 2006, p93. Really Fit For Kings, MUM Mar 2007, p44 & TLR Dec 2007. p 104. Estimated Prediction, TLR Apr 2007, p97. Good Fortune, TLR Oct 2007, p98. Allerchrist Fix, TLR Dec 2007, p 115. Murf 

edgar allan holmes New user 21 Posts 
I'd imagine the golden oldie of 1089 could easily be adapted to force the 18th card.
also theres a 'mind reading' trick where you ask them to think of a two digit number where both numbers are odd and each number different. Theres a limited number of possible outcomes (6 I believe) sure this could be played with. You could either fish or use 6 dups in the deck. 

JoeHohman Special user Erie 626 Posts 
Murf, thanks for the posts  I will be sure to look some of those up for alternate presentation ideas; I also saw your suggestions in the other thread about Ultra Card Divination, and I liked your idea about incorporating the phone number! Cool stuff....
(I just LOVE these "very old" ideas that stand the test of time....) 

TerrorInt Regular user 142 Posts 
Oh I accidentally gave a wrong mismag link.... this is the effect I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBmTGHaEtKE I didn't relize I clicked on a play list so by the time I cut/paste the url it was a different trick. Derp.
I think it is a variation of Harry Lorayne's trick described by JoeHohman. Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to check all these out. 

murf Loyal user San Antonio, TX 255 Posts 
Aha, that's what I figured you were talking about, although I couldn't find it (the 34 sounded very familiar)! You can, by the way, obviously count up to values other than ten, if it fits your story better. And you can say that face cards have a value of either ten or zero, again depening on what fits your story. Saying that face cards have a value of zero helps maintain a certain consistency if you're going to find somebody's phone number, address, or birthday, and you you need a zero or two in the result.
Murf 

Harry Lorayne V.I.P. New York City 8333 Posts 
I included the basic effect, titled Prediction, in my book, THE MAGIC BOOK (1977). No need to count all the cards, etc. Much better effect. I also included it in MATHEMATICAL WIZARDRY, titled Wanna See A Card Trick? Coincidentally, just finished rewriting it for THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Volume 5, because one of the books I'm rewriting, updating for that volume is THE MAGIC BOOK. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com 

TheMag1cian Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1255 Posts 
Aronson: Prior Commitment & Divide and Conquer
Bannon: Beyond Fabulous (if you like playing with the aces) Lorayne: Lazy Mans card trick Francis: Annhilation Deck (Stebbins) Colombini: Coincidental Cut (Aldo On Trost 5) Just so many to choose from. These are 6 I use a lot. 

JoeHohman Special user Erie 626 Posts 
Harry, I performed this twice last week with your suggested presentation (actually, my description above is probably from your Afterthoughts, I think) and it went over extremely well both times. Great effect! People are floored when you pull the fourth seven (or whatever) from your pocket.


TerrorInt Regular user 142 Posts 
Harry, I thought you might have something to pitch in. What I'm looking for seems to be right up your alley. I already classify Invisible Pass as a trick that always ends on the first card. I lead up to it differently, but when I get to the appropriate point, I say something like "And now the cards are actually set up for Harry Lorayne's Invisible Pass." They burn my hands, and as of yet have never figure it out. One day somebody will call me out for it, but it's a good inside joke if they do.


virtualwizard Regular user Bailey Island, Maine 122 Posts 
Lazy Man's Card Trick byLorayne
Mike the Magician


magicwolverine New user 54 Posts 
Graham Jolly fooled Penn and Teller with Whispering Jokers on Fool Us.


dancecoach New user 57 Posts 
Quote:
On Oct 29, 2014, magicwolverine wrote: After having performed this a couple times, I can say that this really kills. Even if the specs don't exactly do what they are supposed to it still works, BUT... So, I have a specific question on the setup which I'd like to ask someone who has performed this often. Anyone? Thanks! 

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