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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The argument is climate stability is both nonlinear and extremely sensitive to fossil fuel use byproducts. Unfortunately the argument is coming from folks who also say the butterfly effect involved strategic use of butterflies.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: The claim and associated data are that our current climate is not analogous to earlier natural climate changes.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, Payne wrote: Payne, if you had read my previous posts, I wasn't arguing that global warming had ceased, I was arguing that there are plenty of scientists who believe in AGW that there has been a pause. John didn't believe me so I posted 3 links to articles where they do exactly that. (I could find a lot more than 3 but I felt like 3 was a good start.) You yourself list 3 excuses for the pause yourself! |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Payne,
Late to this thread so probably asked and answered but here goes. Does global warming mean we will spend less on fuel to heat our homes? Also have to purchase less winter clothes in order to keep warm in the winter. I don't see that as a bad thing. Before the planet becomes uninhabitable and we all die according to your figures...how long will that be?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2014, rockwall wrote: LOL
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: Solar radiation, volcanic activity, greenhouse gases from other sources. This is fairly well understood and explained. What we have today is that in addition to all the natural processes, we have human contribution of greenhouse gases. Are humans morally responsible for minimizing or reversing activities that are altering the climate (on top, of course, of the natural processes)?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 6, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Here John, I thought I would help you out a little since your chart didn't really cover the area we're talking about very well. Here's another one. See that flat section at the end? The part where the 5 year running mean line stays below .6? See, that's what some scientists would call a pause. They call it that because, well, the temperature is staying flat and not going up. Hence, pause. Now admittedly, that's not proof that it will stay flat, go up or go down. But it's not what the computer models predicted which is why so many scientists are scrambling to explain it. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
What is a land-ocean temperature index? I see you got the graph from Wikimedia commons. Any idea what it refers to, who made it, or in what context? I don't see it on the NASA site.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: No we have no moral obligation. Nice try. Do we have a moral obligation to force other countries to do what we say? Still the proof that man has caused the latest alleged warming is not quite solid. No matter how @any noisy crickets claim the contrary.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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HudsonView New user 98 Posts |
"Still the proof that man has caused the latest alleged warming is not quite solid."
I don't think the right question is whether man started it. The question to be answered is can man stop it. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The the question is at what cost?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, acesover wrote: Worst Case Scenarios from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a......eat.html Even Worse Case Scenario http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/12/18/c......-humans/ Quote:
the rapid temperature and climate change brought about by the methane could, in theory, be an extinction event. Human society could not reasonably adapt in time leading to a catastrophic breakdowns and perhaps even asphyxiation due to the new climate not being breathable. Increased temperature doesn't just mean lower heating bills and the ability to wear summer shorts all year long. It means sever droughts, sea level rise water shortages in some parts of the world, severe flooding in others, ocean acidification, species extinction, increased diseases, food shortages, and all sorts of othe hilarity and fun. And all in the next century or two!
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: So polluters have no obligation to clean up their pollution? Companies that dump pesticides in drinking water have no moral obligation to clean it up? Do you really believe that? Honestly?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Where did I say that exactly?
I am saying HUMANS do not have an obligation as a race. HUMANS are not a single entity. HUMANS can not be told what is "moral" for other countries. YOU have no right to force your alleged "morality" upon other human beings. I said NOTHING about polluting or cleaning it up now did I? I said nothing about drinking water or pesticides. All those are straw men YOU CONCOCTED to stir up emotion. Sorry didn't work. So do YOU think we are "morally obligated" to force the entire world to do what we say because of your belief?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Danny, you've changed the terms of discussion. If human industry has caused climate change, then humans, as a whole, need to find a way to fix their mess. Or so I believe.
How this implies forcing the world to do what "we" say eludes me. Humans have shown high levels of cooperation before. Let's try that first, eh?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Worse case scenarios does sound horrid. However they are just that, worse case scenarios. Also they are speculation. Just as when we detonated the first Atomic Bomb it was thought by many "experts" to create a chain reaction and destroy this planet. It did not happen. However that does not mean the prediction of climate change will not happen in the form of global warming...but it is just speculation. Speculation that we should watch but not prepare for because it is just speculation at this point. I won't get into all of the things that could destroy this planet and we could possibly prepare for but the cost for such disasters that may never reach fruition is foolish to spend resources on.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: How do you propose to enforce your cooperation exactly John? Utopia just can not be acquired. There will be some who will just NOT do what you require. Then what? Yes you want the world to bend to your opinion. You want the world to cooperate with what YOU think the truth is and heck it isn't even proven yet. But somehow we must try first? Not the best battle cry.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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HudsonView New user 98 Posts |
" The the question is at what cost?"
What difference does it make what cost? Whatever it takes. What a ridiculous question. How much is too much to have the human race continue in your estimation? |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Lots of cooperation among the countries of the world when it comes to agreeing to screw workers. See WTO, NAFTA, TIPP, GATT, and so on. Mechanisms of enforcement are embedded in such agreements as well.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2014, HudsonView wrote: Hmm...would we have to include tv game show hosts? If so, I'm out.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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