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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Scientists agree on Global Warming » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (190 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MaxfieldsMagic
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"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

- Upton Sinclair

I'd say that pretty much sums up the "doubts" of the current energy industry, and by extension (through campaign contributions) most Republicans. It's willful denial based on self interest and financially motivated corruption, pure and simple. If they can make environmental concern sound like a socialist plot, so much the better - "real Americans" hate socialism, you know. As a corollary, most right-wing radio and broadcast news feels the need to advocate for anything that benefits Republicans and corporations, hence their position. If Exxon and the Republicans changed their position on the issue, Limbaugh and Fox would do a 180 in a jiffy. Where are the real Republican leaders, like Teddy Roosevelt, who unabashedly embraced conservation - wisely interpreting it as "conservative" in the truest sense - or even the much-maligned Richard Nixon, who established the EPA and signed the Clean Air Act?
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mastermindreader
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Many people choose to forget that Republican Teddy Roosevelt was basically the founder of the progressive movement.

And, yes, those who dream of unregulated capitalism really ought to read Upton Sinclair.
tommy
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Maybe Bob should stick his head under water and argue that water kills and so we should get rid of it.
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mastermindreader
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If we filled our atmosphere with water instead of air, water would kill.

Your refusal to accept that excess carbon emissions are toxic is ridiculous.
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Those are your words not mine.
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GlenD
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Http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/04/03/a......onsense/

I am sure there is something to discredit him too but interesting I don't think he is a member of the Heritage Foundation of a big oil stooge...Arent those the only reasons/explanations for "deniers"? hmmm will wait to see what the hoaxers come up with to discredit this scientist.

Glen
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
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Dr. Woodcock declared there was 'professional misconduct by Government advisors around the world' when it comes to man-made climate change claims.  'The theory of ‘man-made climate change’ is an unsubstantiated hypothesis' --  water is a much more powerful greenhouse gas and there is, is 20 times more of it in our atmosphere (around one per cent of the atmosphere) whereas CO2 is only 0.04%'

'When I ask the former NASA scientist about ‘climate change’ and ‘global warming’, he laughs.'


:)
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MaxfieldsMagic
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Well, I really hope you guys are right, and this whole Climate Change thing is a scam. That would really beat the alternative, wouldn't it? Don't believe it for a second, but I genuinely hope to be proven wrong. Thing is, it seems wisest to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And BTW, what's the worst that could happen if we achieve energy independence from fossil fuels and coal? Less reliance on third world countries ruled by hateful theocracies? Technological advancements? Cleaner air? Maybe lower costs? None of that sounds bad, does it, even f it takes a left-wing conspiracy to push us in that direction.
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mastermindreader
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I agree with you Maxfield, but this thread has become pointless. The deniers here are as immune to reason as they are to science.

But for those who think that excess carbon dioxide isn't a problem, what about other carbon emissions. CO2 is not the only one, you know. How much carbon monoxide is acceptable to you, tommy. Or is that good for you too?
Dannydoyle
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PLEASE do not lump me in with conspiracy theorists. I think most people at least on the mass level are people of conscious. Manipulated yes but still not a conspiracy.

You say prepare for the worst. Here is where it gets tricky. What do you think needs to be done to prepare. Carbon tax? Government intervention and making it so oil companies can't operate? What do you consider reasonable things to be done to "prepare for the worst"?

I ask because ALL of the things proposed by the environmentalists will have SOME sort of economic impact. I am not claiming disaster or screaming the sky is falling, but there WILL be an impact. Do you not think it reasonable to consider this impact prior to just wading in and doing all sorts of things we do not even know the result of?

Sorry but this is how I view things. Not a denier by any means, but a pragmatic viewpoint.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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As I said Bob your are not mine. Rather than quote what I have actually said you misinterpret them and try to put them into mouth and them call ridiculous. It seems you believe you read peoples minds for reason. What I think and shave actually aid is that are net benefits to rising levels of CO2.
What part of “net benefits” you don't you grasp? When I explain some of benefits of it you come out with the ridiculous state statement that if put a plastic bag over your head you die as if I don't know that and think you will not. Net benefits means there some downsides to it and putting a plastic bag over your head is obviously one of them. As CO2 levels rise so does plant life which feed the growing number of people and animals. So there is balancing act going on in mother nature. The alarmists only look at the down side of it. This here more or less explains my position:

Benefits to Humans

Far from being a pollutant, rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations will never directly harm human health, but will indirectly benefit humans in a number of ways. Chief among these benefits is global food security. People must have sufficient food, simply to sustain themselves; and the rise in the atmosphere's CO2 concentration that has occurred since the inception of the Industrial Revolution (an increase of approximately 100 ppm) has done wonders for humanity in this regard. And, it will continue to work wonders in helping us meet the rising food consumption needs of a larger, future population.

In addition to increasing the quantity of food available for human consumption, the rising atmospheric CO2 concentration is also increasing the quality of the foods we eat. It significantly increases the quantity and potency of the many beneficial substances found in their tissues (such as the vitamin C concentration of citrus fruit), which ultimately make their way onto our dinner tables and into many of the medicines we take, improving our health and helping us better contend with the multitude of diseases and other maladies that regularly afflict us. In just one species of spider lily, for example, enriching the air with CO2 has led to the production of higher concentrations of several substances that have been demonstrated to be effective in fighting a number of human maladies, including leukemia, ovary sarcoma, melanoma, and brain, colon, lung and renal cancers, as well as Japanese encephalitis and yellow, dengue, Punta Tora and Rift Valley fevers.

To learn more, click on one of the categories below

Future Increases in CO2 Will Not Produce Any Direct Adverse Health Effects

Historical Increases in CO2 Have Increased the Planet's Food Supply

Future Increases in CO2 Will Further Increase the Planet's Food Supply



Elevated Atmospheric CO2 Concentrations Enhance Health-Promoting Properties of Foods

CO2-Enriched Air Improves Plant Medicinal Properties.



** For additional peer-reviewed scientific references and an in-depth discussion of the science supporting our position, please visit Climate Change Reconsidered: The Report of the Nongovernmental Planel on Climate Change (www.climatechangereconsidered.org), or CO2 Science (www.co2science.org).


http://www.plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx?menuitemid=252
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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It's hard to weigh net benefits globally. If I get more vegetation because of some change in climate whether caused by humans or not, (resulting in me and my kin living longer), while you get more tsunamis (resulting in the short lives of you and your kin), is there a net benefit? As usual, it's generally helpful to ask, Who benefits? and not assume that change affects us all in the same way.
Dennis Michael
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Seriously, 26 pages on Global Warming.
Dennis Michael
landmark
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2014, Dennis Michael wrote:
Seriously, 26 pages on Global Warming.

You probably could double the count if you had asked whether you wanted a red coffin or a blue coffin.
mastermindreader
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I see tommy remains fixated on the idea that all carbon emissions are CO2 and that they are beneficial.

Like I said, some remain immune to science and reason.

Leave your car running in a closed garage for a while and tell me how good it is for the atmosphere in the garage.
tommy
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Every time we burn fossil fuels such as gas, coal or oil, carbon dioxide, that is CO2, is released into the atmosphere. In a natural carbon cycle, carbon dioxide is re-absorbed by plants and trees. What other “carbon” emissions are you talking about Bob?
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landmark
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The question as I see it tommy, is why are you supporting technology the Rockefellers control ?
tommy
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I am not as I see it but me and the Rockefeller are both out for population control and our only difference lies is in who we should kill.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Apr 17, 2014, tommy wrote:
Every time we burn fossil fuels such as gas, coal or oil, carbon dioxide, that is CO2, is released into the atmosphere. In a natural carbon cycle, carbon dioxide is re-absorbed by plants and trees. What other “carbon” emissions are you talking about Bob?



Where did you get the idea that we're only talking about CO2? (Even though CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by 40% since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and is one of the primary greenhouse gases.)

Quote:
A greenhouse gas (sometimes abbreviated GHG) is a gas in an atmosphere that absorbs and emits radiation within the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse effect.[1] The primary greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone. Greenhouse gases greatly affect the temperature of the Earth; without them, Earth's surface would average about 33 °C colder, which is about 59 °F below the present average of 14 °C (57 °F).[2][3][4]

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution (taken as the year 1750), the burning of fossil fuels and extensive clearing of native forests has contributed to a 40% increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, from 280 to 392.6 parts per million (ppm) in 2012.[5][6] This increase has occurred despite the uptake of a large portion of the emissions by various natural "sinks" involved in the carbon cycle.[7][8] Anthropogenic carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions (i.e., emissions produced by human activities) come from combustion of carbon-based fuels, principally wood, coal, oil, and natural gas.[9] Under ongoing greenhouse gas emissions, available Earth System Models project that the Earth's surface temperature could exceed historical analogs as early as 2047 affecting most ecosystems on Earth and the livelihoods of over 3 billion people worldwide.[10] Greenhouse gases also trigger ocean bio-geochemical changes with broad ramifications in marine systems.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_emissions
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