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david abel
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I've recently applied for and received my CRB certificate but this is only a basic level, as I was told a more advanced one I couldn't get being self employed. Just wondered what other magicians did and if they have the advanced level how they got about this, all help appreciated.
stuartmagic
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Hello David,

In my own opinion a CRB certificate is a waste of time as they are really only valid the very second that they are given, a week, even a day later they could be classed as being out of date which if you think about it, strictly speaking, they are.

As a childrens entertainer it is best to have one though especially if you are a full time self employed entertainer, like myself. For what they cost you might as well get one. I am sometimes asked if I have a CRB certificate and always show this if required, which isn't often. I do a very large number of schools and some are quite strict on you having it and some are not, it varies greatly. You should also have public liability insurance, I have mine through Equity and this is a must as you want to be insured just in case. Another item you should get is a PAT test for any electrical equipment that you use. Many of the big hotels and conference centres are fairly strict on PAT tested equipment. Basically for what the 3 above items cost I would have lost out far more by not having them as I would not have got certain jobs.

Concerning your level of CRB, there isn't one. A CRB certificate is just that and also they never go out of date hence they are not worth the paper they are written on. I would suggest that you do renew it every 3 years so that you can show that you are "up to date".

So to answer your question, there is not an advanced level CRB certificate. You are perfectly ok. with the normal CRB certificate that you have.

Stuart
thekidsmagician
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http://www.charitybackroom.org.uk/crb-checks-for-individuals-and-the-self-employed-

The advice in that is to register with an agency to obtain one. This is also suggested on the Government's website (just under half-way down the page, labelled Self-Employed Workers):
https://www.gov.uk/disclosure-and-barrin......mplaints

If you help out with a voluntary organisation or a school you may be able to get an advanced one done through them.

- Mike
Children's entertainer in Bristol - making children look AMAZING! - www.thekidsmagician.com
pbj100
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If you do school shows ask the school to apply for you that way you get one on behalf of your local council . Phil
Dynamike
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Just curious. What's a CRB Certificate?
Daveandrews
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CRB doesn't exist anymore, per se.
It is now the DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service)
The best thing to do is go to their site, and check it out - if anyone is a member of the CEUK group on Facebook, there is and interesting thread on there.
Have fun !
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Starrpower
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Please, for the benefit of us Yanks, what is it? I am going to assume, until someone tells me different, it's the British government sticking it's nose into private sector business affairs (the US has been getting pretty good at that lately, too, but you guys are older than us so perhaps more practiced at interference).
thekidsmagician
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Quote:
Please, for the benefit of us Yanks, what is it?


CRB (as it was) was a Criminal Records Bureau check. The theory was to ensure that anyone working or coming into contact with vulnerable groups was deemed safe to work with them. The problem was that it was based on the past, and was technically out of date the day it was printed. Most places I worked that required one (mainly schools) worked on the principle that as long as it was within the last 3 years it was "okay". Which was silly but that's how most people treated it.

On the other hand, my wife was involved in so many different groups she ended up having 4 CRB checks within 3 months of each other - each check was for a different group. Joined-up government at it's finest!

It has been replaced by something called the "Disclosure and Barring Service". To quote the Government website it "helps employers make safer recruitment decisions and prevent unsuitable people from working with vulnerable groups, including children. It replaces the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA)."

It's actual effectiveness in real life is still debated, just as the CRB checks were.

I am pretty sure I have successfully bored anyone reading this now - sorry!

- Mike
Children's entertainer in Bristol - making children look AMAZING! - www.thekidsmagician.com
Dynamike
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One time a school requested me to bring a certificate from the state showing proof I never abused children in any manner.
david abel
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Thanks for all the replies, really appreciated. It's come about as an organisation asked me for one, and weren't particularly happy that I only had the basic. I ended up signing one of their disclaimers. I will read through some of your advice and see if I can get an advanced one through another party. Thank you
Starrpower
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Not boring at all, Mike. I found that intresting.

Now, the other Mike (the Dyna version), I am curious as to what you showed them. Did you print up a certificate on your computer and have your wife sign it? I am amused by that request. You could certainly document that you DID something, but documenting that you DIDN'T is a, well, rather impossible!
themagiciansapprentice
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I got an Enhanced DBS certificate from an Agency - it cost £44

and for an additional £13 it is now portable for the year (you need to contact them within 14 days of the date on the certificate via https://www.gov.uk/dbs-update-service )

- so only one Certificate is needed as it is always up to date (Police etc add to it if you are a naughty boy!!!) and only one is needed

Without a CRB you will struggle to get inside many schools, hotels or halls (and also check that all your electrical stuff over a year old is PAT tested).

In the past, most clients have photocopied my CRB and photo-ID when I arrived. Now they also check my certificate on the DBS web-site.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Starrpower
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So somebody's getting rich off this.
Paddy
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Starr, one of the cities around Cincinnati called Indian Hill is a POSH place with a lot of high income families. In order to do parties there my wife & I had to submit to a criminal records check and even had us run thru not only sex offenders but the National Crime database called the NCIS They then sent us a letter stating we were allowed to perform in Indian Hill for adult & children's parties. It was funny because it did show that the only thing I was arrested for was a Captain's Mast (artical 15) for walking out of Tokyo General Military Hospital and getting a few drinks without permission.
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Starrpower
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The entire city? Really?! Who made THAT rule? Is it a law, or just snooty people asking because someone else did?

I'd take a pass on working there, Paddy. I find that to be incredibly personally intrusive. I always follow the money trail. If someone has concerns about me, it's easy enough for them to go online and check on me for free. You wanna see what I've been up to? Have a look:

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl

(oh, that's right. I've never been arrested or sued so you won't find anything)

Seriously, I understand that people have concerns, but it's a hollow feeling of security that really proves nothing. It looks good on paper. It's akin to the absurd airport security that gives the 92 year old grandma a strip search but ignores the Mideastern looking guy with no luggage who is furtively glancing all over the place.
Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2014-01-22 15:02, Starrpower wrote:

Now, the other Mike (the Dyna version), I am curious as to what you showed them. Did you print up a certificate on your computer and have your wife sign it? I am amused by that request. You could certainly document that you DID something, but documenting that you DIDN'T is a, well, rather impossible!

The principal told me to get the form from Michigan Department of Human Services. I did go to the government Michigan Department of Human Services building near me. I asked the clerk for the form that will prove I have a clean record with children. I can not remember the name of the form: http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,4562,7-124-7699---,00.html It was free. I filled in the form and gave it to the clerk. About a week later I received a approval form in the mail explaining I am clear of abusing children. I made a copy and gave it to the principal. In a way I want to put it on my website. But it makes me feel a little funny for showing an odd thing.
TonyB2009
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I once worked a resort with some British entertainers. The only one with CRB clearance was the only pedophile on the staff. Completely useless interference by the government that does not do what it is intended to do.
Starrpower
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So, Mike, it doesn't really show that you are "clear of abusing children", but rather you have never been caught (and I don't mean you specifically, of course, but rather the whole ridiculous concept).

Tony, that's one of the things I like about you, you're a bit of a rebel. BTW, what happened to your avatar?
TomBoleware
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Nothing is going to guarantee that someone will never abuse a child. But to allow those that have already been charged with abuse to remain in the mix of kids is a pretty good guarantee that it will happen again. The background check lowers the odds.

All teachers, daycare workers, and all professionals that work with kids, must be checked out. And some feel everybody that regularly comes into contact with kids should be too.

It's a mean ole world out there.


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Starrpower
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Yeah, Tom, but if I come into your facility, you would be a fool to leave me alone with kids anyway. What about any other worker that might have to enter your facility -- maintenance people, plumbers, painters, mail carriers, etc? DO they all need a background check? A magician would only be there 45 minutes.
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