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Rodney Palmer Inner circle 1317 Posts |
So here is my QUESTION?
If you were a very successful Children's Performer why would you give that up? Danny gave that up to become a Corporate Trade Show Magician and is what I thought a very successful as a Trade Show Magician but maybe he is not so successful. So why all of a sudden does he start to Lecture and come out with a Set of Children's DVD's and a few props? WHY, does he have to go back to his roots because Trade Show Business is very slow or what? I would like to know. I asked him that question and he refused to answer it after the lecture. So after being out of the Children's Magic Business for way to long why come back now and Lecture and sell items for Children's Shows unless it is all about the money. Now there is nothing wrong with making money. But if you have been out of the game to long then you cannot come back full steam and try something you have never done. PBJ100: Danny is very Old School and with his ways to Control Children he would die a very fast death where I live as the kids would eat him alive. His Philosophy about Entertaining and Controlling Children are way out dated in most ways. The only place his methods would work are at Schools or Shows where the Children are privileged: Higher, Very Upper Middle Class. The Lecture I saw Danny at he was very frazzled and not even in control of himself. He left his Laptop at a Bagel Shop and was more worried about that then presenting the Lecture. He needed the Laptop for his Power Point Presentation. He was very RUDE and demanding towards the Magic Shop Owner and he was very controlling in the way, that it was HIS way or the highway. I personally thought he was just an A**. But this is my opinion. And I even tried to help him by calling the Bagel Shop but they were already closed. In his lecture I felt like I was being treated like an 8 year old child. And I do not mean that in a good way. My first thoughts were that he is just in this for the money. His prices were so HIGH people did not even purchase anything except a few Aqua Cups and a Couple Sets of Lecture Notes. I even told him that his prices were way to high and he even admitted he did not know what he was doing when it came to selling merchandise. So here you are, a Lecturer and you do not even know how to sell your own merchandise. So please just stick with Silly Billy, Ken Scott or Barry Mitchell. Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"
In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person. |
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pbj100 Special user 516 Posts |
Rodney , lets have some solid examples ?
I assure you upper class children can be every bit a handful that under privilaged kids can . Your statements are very sweeping and generalised . You may be correct but lets here some solid examples Phil |
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
Rodney: I spent a long time making my living doing magic. I can tell you for a fact that very few magicians have steady bookings that bring in enough income to live 'well'. Another problem is that if you are unable to work, your income stops. The prudent thing to do is to do anything you can so that you are producing income at a steady pace.
I don't know Danny, have never seen him work, but many of the most successful in the magic business are deversified. We probably could name dozens of people that we think of a successful magicians who have allied side businesses going for them. |
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Karen Climer Veteran user Orlando, Florida 324 Posts |
I saw Danny's lecture in Orlando, and it was fantastic. Yes, his stuff is expensive, but I have found it to be worth it. I would recommend his DVD to anyone who works with children or families. He uses (and teaches) psychological concepts that works as well now as they did 100 years ago. I'm sure they will work 100 years from now as well.
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
Yes I too loved the Danny Orleans DVD set.
It just sounds like he had an 'off' day. I think you could just as easily say Silly Billy,Ken Scott and Barry Mitchell were old school as well. I mean his warm ups,the giant colouring book and the traffic light lesson with Stratospheres.Then a dove production! Killer stuff.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Jolly Roger V.I.P. Sedona, Arizona 1667 Posts |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Mac King and David Kaye (Silly Billy) rave about Danny's DVD. What more social proof do you want?
I actually saw Danny's lecture a few months back and it was very well received. My experience was 100% different than what Rodney Palmer experienced. In fact, Danny couldn't have been nicer. At the end of his lecture he had a long line of customers buying his DVD, notes and other products, so he must be doing something right. Gerry |
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Danny Orleans V.I.P. Chicago 119 Posts |
I was notified about the differing opinions about my DVD set and my work as a children's entertainer posted on this thread, so I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify and answer some of Rodney Palmer's questions.
But before I do, I must apologize to Mr. Palmer and the other magicians that attended my the lecture where I had lost my laptop in Michigan in January of 2013. Mr. Palmer thought that all I had was a PowerPoint on there. Those of you who have seen the lecture, know that there is footage of a children's performance filmed during the summer of 2012 which I use to illustrate the powerful audience management strategies that made me one of the most successful children's magicians in the country during the 1980s. Of course, he felt "treated" like an 8 year old, because it's hard to demonstrate props and techniques that work with young children, when there are a bunch of adult magicians in the room. That's why I wanted to use my laptop to show video, proof that my approach really works. It was certainly a low point for me as a lecturer, (I think it was my 3rd lecture on Children's Magic), but thankfully, I have grown from there and Jan Rose and I received rave reviews from magi attending our lectures at KIDabra, The Houdini Convention in Wisconsin, Magic in the Rockies, and most recently Magi-Fest, where Josh Jay sent me an unsolicited email saying that Jan Rose and I were the "hit of the convention." Rodney asks.. "If you were a very successful Children's Performer why would you give that up? Danny gave that up to become a Corporate Trade Show Magician and is what I thought a very successful as a Trade Show Magician but maybe he is not so successful. So why all of a sudden does he start to Lecture and come out with a Set of Children's DVD's and a few props?" Answer: I didn't really "give up" children's performing. As a matter of fact I have a birthday party gig this weekend in Chicago, and another event at a religious institution the following weekend. Also have a children's theater event in April in a Chicago suburb. What happened during the early '90s was an outgrowth of me becoming a very competent close up magician and referrals from magicians and agents for trade shows. During the '90s, my career slowly morphed from doing children's shows at schools, to doing more and more trade shows. I never turned down school tours until my daughter was born. It was much better leaving home for just a few days to do a trade show as opposed to leaving home for two weeks to do a school tour. So my career was comprised of local school shows, trade shows, private party work, the mind reading act that I perform with Jan Rose, and corporate events. As noted above in the thread, being a full time pro often requires diversity, and happily, I've achieved that in my work. Success, is a subjective. Last year, I performed at 28 trade shows, most of them multi-day events. Some may say that's successful, some may not. You can see my current schedule for this year on my site http://www.dannyorleansmagic.com. Why do I "suddenly" start to lecture? Because it was time. I had a successful career as a children's magician and, like many children's magicians before me, I wanted to pass on my techniques, audience management strategies and routines to the next generation of magicians. My DVD set, "The Art of Presenting Magic for Children," as noted by one reviewer, was a "legacy project." I put my heart and soul into the project and gave every detail of my performance, every trick, how to build them, perform them, and even included the audience management strategies which is something I've not seen discussed anywhere before with the thoroughness that Eugene Burger, Michael Brandwein and I covered it. Expensive? Depends how you look at it. The DVD set is literally teaching my entire act, to the purchaser. For $129, ($99 at lecture) you are being given a show with which you can make a living, or for a part-time pro, a nice income. many purchasers have told me it's a bargain. My techniques are not outdated at all. Teachers, Camp Counselors, and Organization leaders complement me every time I do a show. A typical comment is, "Your best trick is how well you controlled the children. -- And Rodney, I do shows for all different economic classes, not just the "privileged." Ask any magician who saw me at Magi-Fest perform my show for 100 children -- children who were from all economic classes, and their parents-- The children, all of them, sat quietly, engaged for 45 minutes, laughing, participating, having a great time. No one left, no one cried, no one fidgeted. So, I hope sometime you'll be able to see my show live, or at least watch the video of my live show (it wasn't entirely clear if you've seen the video or not) so you can make an informed decision by witnessing my work, rather than making assumptions about my work through my lecture. I think that magicians who want to learn more about performing for children should invest in books and DVDs from all the magicians named in this thread, including David Kaye, Barry Mitchell, Ken Scott… as well as British Magicians, Terry Herbert and Trevor Lewis. There are many different approaches. You have to find the one that will fit your personality and reflect an approach with which you are comfortable. Jan Rose and I will be lecturing in the U.K. in April and May where I'll be very interested in getting feedback from UK magicians and determining just how "different" children and the magicians that perform for them are from their counterparts in North America. If you've read this far, thank you for your interest in this thread. If you've seen my lecture of a live performance of my kids show, I'd be interested in reading your thoughts, so please do not hesitate to post. |
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robvh Elite user Calgary, AB 440 Posts |
I concur with all of the positive statements above.
Who hasn't had a bad day? |
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Quentin Inner circle 1020 Posts |
Quote:
On 2014-02-05 01:28, Danny Orleans wrote: The key phrase here is, "Because it was time." Question: How many DVDs and books are released to children's entertainers and the magic community in general by those who are ignorant of even the basic fundamentals of stagecraft, audience management and presentation. Answer: Most of them. When someone explains and teaches a new concept or strategy to you, you try it out and it works, it is a great feeling. But it may well take hundreds of performances for you to know and understand it. That takes time. |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
Having worked with Danny in the past I would say he is professional all the way around. His DVD is wonderful and his thoughts behind what he does is brilliant. I think we all can learn from others. So IMO buy what you can and take it all in if you can.
Ken |
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Jolly Roger V.I.P. Sedona, Arizona 1667 Posts |
I want to make it clear that I am not endorsing the comments of magicfillipo1000·in his You Tube clip. I merely posted it as a point for possible discussion, as the you-tube clip was brought to my attention on another forum. I do not own the Danny Orleans DVD's. I did meet him at Kidabra and Magic Live, and he is a nice chap! Our philosophies on entertaining children are poles apart, but that is the beauty of children's entertainment. To quote Hillary Clinton: "It takes a village!" JR
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pbj100 Special user 516 Posts |
I think the guy on the you tube was just miffed because there where no new routines on the DVDs phil
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Rodney Palmer Inner circle 1317 Posts |
@Jolly Roger, to BAD the You Tube Video has been removed already.
Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"
In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person. |
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robvh Elite user Calgary, AB 440 Posts |
I watched the video yesterday before it was removed and posted a polite rebuttal based on my very recent experience watching Danny perform live. The reviewer was just plain wrong on many counts and, as pbj100 pointed out, was likely annoyed that he didn't get a bunch of brand new material. But that's not the point of the DVD set!
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2014-02-06 04:16, robvh wrote: Most of the working pros that I know, rarely change their material, and do the same show, with few variations, for years. I don't understand why there always seems to be a search for new material. Once a show is set, the emphasis should be on honing what you already have. |
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TommyJ Inner circle Foxboro, MA 1750 Posts |
Quote:
On 2014-02-06 06:59, jakeg wrote: Well said.
"Keep the Kids Laughing!"
https://www.tommyjamesmagic.com/store |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
Totally agree tommy.
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Well, this has been discussed a lot, but there are very legit reasons to work on new stuff. Where I'm at, I see the same kids a lot, sometimes I'l have kids who have seen me 3 or 4 times the same year. Also, I have clients that book me once or twice a year, every year. For example, there are about 25 Indian families around here, and they all know each other and go to each others parties, so I think I did at least 4 or 5 parties for the same group of families last year, in addition to seeing some of the same kids elsewhere. You can do the same act for them a few times and they will like it, but you know what I'm sayin!
In addition, if you are like me, you always want to improve your act, so if you see a new routine or trick that seems like it would work really well, then you might want to try it. I still make it my own, maybe change it up quite a bit from the way it's presented. If it doesn't work out for me then I'll sell it or shelve it and try it again later. Also, do you know any actor that wants to do the same play every day fro 20 years? I still like doing some of the same stuff I've done forever, but working on new stuff keeps things interesting. This past year I've been adding vent to my act, and I have a lot of room for improvement, but it's been working out very well. If I was content to never try new stuff, I wouldn't have discovered that I really like doing it and have a flair for it. I might even do an all vent act at some point. The first time I did a vent thing, I killed with it, and I was thinking "man, I wish I would have tried this earlier". Of course, I can still try to improve the way I've been doing my long time stuff. I don't think there are many absolutes in doing entertainment - do what works for you.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
My number goal this year is to add more music in my shows.
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