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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Oh, woe is me, T' have seen what I have seen, see what I see! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Marlin1894
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On 2014-02-04 15:13, arthur stead wrote:

Who has ever topped Blowing In The Wind, The Times They Are A-Changin', Masters Of War and so many others?



In my opinion, Bob Dylan has.

I think from the era after "Blood On The Tracks" he's churned out several outstanding albums and songs. Some of his very best work I believe. I think "Infidels", "Oh Mercy", "Time Out Of Mind" and "Love And Theft", to name a few, are all excellent albums. Even some of the albums that have flopped contains some incredible songs.

I remember taking my time to go out and get "Love and Theft" and a buddy of mine kept calling and asking "did you get it yet?? did you get it yet???" So I finally stopped and picked it up. About half way through the album I stopped it, called him up, and said "holy **** this is a freaking masterpiece".

But like you say, it's all subjective.
Marlin1894
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On 2014-02-04 15:39, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

The relevant point here is that he couldn't have any credibility if he was simultaneously spokesman for commercial interests. Can you imagine "General Motors presents Neil Young's Honour the Treaties Tour"--THAT would be truly ridiculous.


Yeah but Dylan never wanted to be the voice of anything but himself. So it's not really fair to compare the two. Whatever anyone has ascribed to Dylan "voice of a generation" and all that stuff is never something he set out to do or has ever claimed for himself. Check out the Ed Bradley interview sometime.

"It was like being in an Edgar Allan Poe story. And you're just not that person everybody thinks you are, though they call you that all the time," says Dylan. "'You're the prophet. You're the savior.' I never wanted to be a prophet or savior. Elvis maybe. I could easily see myself becoming him. But prophet? No."

He may not have seen himself as the voice of the '60s generation, but his songs were viewed as anthems that sparked a moment.

"My stuff were songs, you know? They weren't sermons," says Dylan. "If you examine the songs, I don't believe you're gonna find anything in there that says that I'm a spokesman for anybody or anything really."

"But they saw it," says Bradley.

"They must not have heard the songs," says Dylan.

"It's ironic, that the way that people viewed you was just the polar opposite of the way you viewed yourself," says Bradley.

"Isn't that something," says Dylan.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dylan-looks-back/2/
Slide
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Again apologize to Arthur if he thinks I came on too strong.

But this music has been a major part of my life, all my life. I've been playing this music all my life. For a while I was obsessed with Ramblin Jack Elliot, who I met a number of times, and could do his entire repertoire. Of course Jack was Dylans early mentor. And I studied guitar with Dave Van Ronk for years, whose couch Dylan slept on and whose wife gave Dylan his first real break. In my 20's I went to Austin to be a songwriter and knew Townes Van Zandt, Lucinda Williams, and was influenced by Butch Hancock and the texas songwriters all of who idolized Dylan. I've played dobro, and national steel slide, and I still play nothing but american roots music. So, what Dylan represents is important to me.

I remember talking to Dave Van Ronk. Dylan had recently visited him and was decrying all the singer songwriters. Dave said "Well, it's really your fault, isn't it?".

I don't think people remember now but no one was writing and performing their own songs, really before Dylan. That flowed from him.

see, I don't think you can look at someone like Dylan and treat him as just another entertainer. He changed everything about music. True innovation is rare. And Dylan's contribution to the world we live in is vastly underrated.
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On 2014-02-04 08:17, Slide wrote:
Pitched yes.

Arthur, wow, we really really disagree. I'm sorry but there are national treasures that transcend whether you like the music or not: Louie Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, and Bob Dylan. These people changed the shape of music completely so that nothing sounded the same after they were among us. I personally feel they deserve more respect.


I love all of these musicians; NOT because they are 'national treasures', but because they have brightened the lives of many people of the world.. yes Dylan included up to a certain point.. people change! As regarding the blues and jazz musicians, we can't forget the fact that America did NOT view Black people as 'treasures' ever since their own bodies were considered commodities under slavery. Up to modern times, I can't get the picture of Miles Davis out of my mind, as he was bloodied by police in front of his own marquee. Much of the music of blues and jazz musicians reflects this history and turns it into a thing of beauty for all! In fact, I'm hearing excellent blues and jazz coming from all over the world now, the caged bird being set free. The car commercial itself bothered me not because of the product, but because of the flag waving. Chrysler has to sell patriotism, because so little is manufactured in America anymore. So maybe I'm not so upset by Dylan doing the commercial since he did sing 'ya gotta serve somebody'. thanx to all who are contributing to this thought provoking topic. Lynn
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On 2014-02-04 15:39, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
The relevant point here is that he couldn't have any credibility if he was simultaneously spokesman for commercial interests.


Really? There are no corporations or other commercial entities for which he could the spokesperson without completely decimating his credibility despite his doing the tour and donating his proceeds? The War on Drugs has nothing on the War on Business.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Bazinga
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Thanks landmark and Tom!

Bazinga!
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2014-02-04 18:50, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-04 15:39, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
The relevant point here is that he couldn't have any credibility if he was simultaneously spokesman for commercial interests.


Really? There are no corporations or other commercial entities for which he could the spokesperson without completely decimating his credibility despite his doing the tour and donating his proceeds? The War on Drugs has nothing on the War on Business.


It is hard to maintain independence in reality and in appearance if you are financially beholden.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2014-02-04 21:40, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-04 18:50, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-04 15:39, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
The relevant point here is that he couldn't have any credibility if he was simultaneously spokesman for commercial interests.


Really? There are no corporations or other commercial entities for which he could the spokesperson without completely decimating his credibility despite his doing the tour and donating his proceeds? The War on Drugs has nothing on the War on Business.


It is hard to maintain independence in reality and in appearance if you are financially beholden.


Ha! That seems to be the exact same argument that I've made repeatedly in another thread! Smile
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2014-02-04 23:33, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-04 21:40, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-04 18:50, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-04 15:39, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
The relevant point here is that he couldn't have any credibility if he was simultaneously spokesman for commercial interests.


Really? There are no corporations or other commercial entities for which he could the spokesperson without completely decimating his credibility despite his doing the tour and donating his proceeds? The War on Drugs has nothing on the War on Business.


It is hard to maintain independence in reality and in appearance if you are financially beholden.


Ha! That seems to be the exact same argument that I've made repeatedly in another thread! Smile



Are you referring to scientists who take money from the companies whose outputs they are supposed to be studying, I completely agree. Pharma and oil have contaminated research communities.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Slide
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BTW, Dylan received $5 million for the spot which was split between him and his music publisher.

The entire spot was orchestrated by Sony CEO Martin Bandier.
Marlin1894
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On 2014-02-05 10:54, Slide wrote:

split between him and his music publisher.



He owns that music publishing company doesn't he?
landmark
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Does the $5 million include anticipated residuals, or is that irrelevant?
critter
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Listen, if the Subaru Outback is good enough for Paul Hogan...
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2014-02-05 11:41, critter wrote:
Listen, if the Subaru Outback is good enough for Paul Hogan...


Sore spot. I just retired my Outback and didn't buy another one. The Outback was BY FAR the best winter vehicle I have ever driven. But the b@stards at Subaru charge Canadian consumers $9k more for their vehicles than they charge Americans. Honda and Hyundai have the prices within about $1k.

I am most displeased with Subaru corporation.

Sorry for being OT.

burn burn burn burn
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Marlin1894
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On 2014-02-05 11:52, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

Sore spot. I just retired my Outback and didn't buy another one. The Outback was BY FAR the best winter vehicle I have ever driven. But the b@stards at Subaru charge Canadian consumers $9k more for their vehicles than they charge Americans.


Does it have something to do with higher safety standards in Canada? I heard some cars sold in America are not able to be imported into Canada.

I have a 2009 Subaru Outback with 32,000 miles that I haven't even started in a month. I could have sold it to you if I had known you were in the market!! It's a total cream puff.
Slide
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"He owns that music publishing company doesn't he?'

No, Sony is his music publisher. They just re-signed their deal in 2010 guaranteeing Dylan $4.4 million every december from 2010-2014.

That is probably why Sony CEO got involved.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2014-02-05 11:59, Marlin1894 wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-05 11:52, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

Sore spot. I just retired my Outback and didn't buy another one. The Outback was BY FAR the best winter vehicle I have ever driven. But the b@stards at Subaru charge Canadian consumers $9k more for their vehicles than they charge Americans.


Does it have something to do with higher safety standards in Canada? I heard some cars sold in America are not able to be imported into Canada.

I have a 2009 Subaru Outback with 32,000 miles that I haven't even started in a month. I could have sold it to you if I had known you were in the market!! It's a total cream puff.

Safety isn't the issue so far as I can tell. Many products cost more here because of the shipping; especially where I am. But apparently Subaru is simply fixing prices because they can.

Thanks for the offer. It would have been a fun adventure Smile
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2014-02-05 12:17, Slide wrote:
"He owns that music publishing company doesn't he?'

No, Sony is his music publisher. They just re-signed their deal in 2010 guaranteeing Dylan $4.4 million every december from 2010-2014.

That is probably why Sony CEO got involved.


Huh! Well, if he's working with THAT capitalistic corporation for that kind of money he obviously sold out long before making this commercial! (Tongue planted firmly in cheek.)
Marlin1894
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On 2014-02-05 12:17, Slide wrote:

No, Sony is his music publisher.


They must have bought out Special Rider or made some sort of licensing deal upfront. Things Have Changed was originally published by Special Rider, and Special Rider is still listed as the copyright holder on the song listing at bobdylan.com. I wonder if some of Sony's end gets paid to Special Rider as a royalty.
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2014-02-05 08:43, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
...

Are you referring to scientists who take money from the companies whose outputs they are supposed to be studying, I completely agree. Pharma and oil have contaminated research communities.


If those are the only scientists you see taking money, I think we know who's being dishonest.
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