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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A math question for Landmark and other mathematicians (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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What was the point of asking what mathematicians think if you had already made up your mind about the "right" answer?

On the other thread you were arguing that it is "false advertising" to say that a jumbo card is four times the size of a regular card. It's been established that "size" is an ambiguous word. It is also beyond dispute that "area" is not- I can place four standard size playing cards on one jumbo card and they will fit perfectly.

But, again, why did you ask the question here if all you wanted to do was argue your own interpretation, regardless of what the answers were?
Jack Straw
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Because I wanted some back-up for what I THOUGHT was a simple math question.

Maybe I'm wrong that it was a simple math question.

But it's a simple printing question.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 14:32, Jack Straw wrote:


Telling us that you want something 4 times the size is not ambiguous.



I'd only tell you that if I actually wanted something 16 times the size! Smile
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 12:28, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-06 11:15, stoneunhinged wrote:
The point at issue is that size is the point at which there is a correspondence between assessments of material reality according to the senses comparative to the correspondence between perceptions of those assessments. Should we believe that our assessments are not inapposite to our perceptions, then there exists a robasculation of signification of the "what is" in contradistinction to the "what I see", and rightly so.

So I agree with Jack Straw 200%, irregardless of the sophistic over-exaggerations of Café mathematicians.

Hey, I thought he asked for a mathematical answer, not a philosophical one!

Mathematics is often difficult to separate from philosophy. Indeed, many well-known mathematicians (Leibniz, Descartes, Russell, Cantor, Gödel, and so on) are also well-known philosophers. Ask me one day (in a new thread) about how that connection arose in a philosophy class (and its connection to a homicide).
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 12:30, Jack Straw wrote:
When I'm told to blow something up to 12" to see what the other dimension comes out to (which happens quite often), I don't ask what is meant by 12".

Nor would any of the mathematicians (and many of the nonmathematicians) here. Unlike your original question, there is nothing ambiguous about twelve inches.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 13:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think the moral of the story is that printers recognize and allow for the fact that most people are fairly math-illiterate.

Innumerate, according to John Allen Paulos.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 15:17, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-06 13:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think the moral of the story is that printers recognize and allow for the fact that most people are fairly math-illiterate.

Innumerate, according to John Allen Paulos.


Does he include as one of the consequences the possibility that one might get a playing card twice the size that one asked for?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 14:32, Jack Straw wrote:
Telling us that you want something 4 times the size is not ambiguous.

That's a good one!

Where's Bazinga when we need him?
Michael Daniels
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OK, this seems to boil down to:

1. "Size" is an imprecise term, but most ordinary persons, mathematicians, real estate agents, etc. would define the size of a two dimensional object as its area. For these people, a jumbo card (5" x 7") is four times the size of a standard card (2.5" x 3.5").

2. Graphic designers, printers, etc. seem to use size to mean MAGNIFICATION. So if a standard card is magnification 100%, then 200% (twice the magnification) is 5 x 7.

Can we all go home now?

Mike
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 15:40, Michael Daniels wrote:
OK, this seems to boil down to:

1. "Size" is an imprecise term, but most ordinary persons, mathematicians, real estate agents, etc. would define the size of a two dimensional object as its area. For these people, a jumbo card (5" x 7") is four times the size of a standard card (2.5" x 3.5").

2. Graphic designers, printers, etc. seem to use size to mean MAGNIFICATION. So if a standard card is magnification 100%, then 200% (twice the magnification) is 5 x 7.

Can we all go home now?

Mike

Buzzkill.
mastermindreader
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Excellent explanation, Michael. It also explains why it is not "false advertising" to state that a standard jumbo card is four time the size of a standard regular card.
Jack Straw
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 15:43, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-06 15:40, Michael Daniels wrote:
OK, this seems to boil down to:

1. "Size" is an imprecise term, but most ordinary persons, mathematicians, real estate agents, etc. would define the size of a two dimensional object as its area. For these people, a jumbo card (5" x 7") is four times the size of a standard card (2.5" x 3.5").

2. Graphic designers, printers, etc. seem to use size to mean MAGNIFICATION. So if a standard card is magnification 100%, then 200% (twice the magnification) is 5 x 7.

Can we all go home now?

Mike

Buzzkill.



That might be what it boils down to, Mike.

As a graphic designer/printer, a 200% enlargement gives us a 5" x 7" playing card.

But since we are talking about something that is printed here, I feel that you have to accept this on my terms.

Like I said previously, go into a Kinko's Copy Shop and ask them to enlarge a standard playing card 4 times.

See what you get, and then argue with them when you're surprised that it's not 5" x 7".

I still don't think that it's proper to call a 5" x 7" playing card 4 times the size, and I never will.

I go by printer's terms.

So I just killed the buzzkill, s2000.

I'm open for more criticism now.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
Jack Straw
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I keep filling in my 3 co-workers on what we are discussing, and all 3 of them are saying things that I cannot repeat here.

All 3 of them agree with what I am saying to you.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
tommy
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Mumbo jumbo, or mumbo-jumbo, is an English phrase or expression that denotes a confusing or meaningless subject. Jumbo is a word for elephant in some parts of Africa. So therefore jumbo size is the size of the king elephants foot because he is the ruler.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 16:06, tommy wrote:
Mumbo jumbo, or mumbo-jumbo . . . .

In this case, tommy, it's more akin to Humpty-Dumpty.
mastermindreader
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Jack-

Your original question had nothing whatsoever to do with printer's definitions of size. It was based on your allegation that it was false advertising to claim that normal jumbo cards are four times the size of regular playing cards.

Apparently your co-workers don't understand that the word "size" is ambiguous, either. (Look it up- it can refer to either area OR dimensions, among other things.)

In your original post you stated that "Size and area are two entirely different things." That is not always the case, as any dictionary will reveal to you.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 16:16, mastermindreader wrote:
In your original post you stated that "Size and area are two entirely different things." That is not always the case, as any dictionary will reveal to you.

Stop being ambiguous here, Bob: what size dictionary we talkin' about?
0pus
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God help us all when Jack Straw gets his hands on a 3-D printer!

Asking him to double the size of a 3 cubic foot box won't result in a 6 cubic foot box -- it will result in a 216 cubic foot box.
Slide
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Well, now that the mathematicians have weighed in perhaps the OP won't mind a non mathematicians thought.

If someone told me they were making a playing card 4 times the size I would assume the dimensions would be 4 times the size: the length would be 4 times the size (2 inches becomes 8 inches) and the width would do likewise. I wouldn't think in terms of area. I don't think many people think in terms of area unless they are painting a wall.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-06 14:10, Jack Straw wrote:
But we do not usually deal with people off the street. We deal with other professionals . . . .

Vice cops deal with professionals as well.

Though, to be fair, most of those professionals are people off the street.
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