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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The lack of class... (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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quicknotist
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Some people here seem to think the argument is comparing the "adult material" of magicians,mentalists and hypnotists to "squeaky clean or family friendly" shows of the same kinds of performer.

It's not that simplistic.

I admire plenty of performers whose material would never be described as "squeaky clean or family friendly."

You can still be shocking, adult oriented and even offensive to the masses WITHOUT appearing to be a xenophobic, homophobic misogynist and (most importantly) without appearing cheap, unclassy and outdated.
Doc_Z
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I think this is a pretty simple concept. Try not to be a misogynistic, sleazy creep in real life. Try not be a misogynistic, sleazy creep on stage.

IAIN, you are closing in on 10,000 posts. Should we throw a party or something to celebrate?
Jerome Finley
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Quote:
On 2014-02-15 08:19, mindpunisher wrote:
It amuses me the number of mentalists that have gone for covering themselves in tattoos recently in order to create a "character". Now we are seeing every man and his dog getting them. And what was once a bit dangerous and "out" there is fastly becoming naff. Give it five or ten years and that look will be Soooo dated!But they will be stuck with it.....


Tattooing goes back over 5,000 years.

I don't think we're in danger of your little prediction coming true anytime soon, MP. Smile
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JonBarr
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I imagine the people who would buy 'joke' rohypnol pills are the same people who would buy bug in an ice cube or rattlesnake eggs.
I doubt they affect magic or mentalism, except by putting a few bucks in the pockets of shop owners.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2014-02-15 23:04, Jerome Finley wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-15 08:19, mindpunisher wrote:
It amuses me the number of mentalists that have gone for covering themselves in tattoos recently in order to create a "character". Now we are seeing every man and his dog getting them. And what was once a bit dangerous and "out" there is fastly becoming naff. Give it five or ten years and that look will be Soooo dated!But they will be stuck with it.....


Tattooing goes back over 5,000 years.

I don't think we're in danger of your little prediction coming true anytime soon, MP. Smile


Actually it is becoming true at least over here in the UK. We even have a programme on TV that's all about the epidemio of tattoos and body modifcation that has happened over here. Where once it was cool or rebelious or whatever and practiced by the odd few. Now its becoming so everyday its lost whatever the original people got tattooed for. and now some of the most uncool people are getting them. Its a fashion a trend that's becoming un trendy and will soon be dated. In fact already plastic surgeons and tatto removal companies are experiencing record profits that's basically what the programme is about.

Like any fashion you see clothes or whatever it eventually becomes passe and dated but some people stick with them. With tattoos you have no choice. But this epidemic over here will die down like all fashions.

Punks, teddy boys new romantics were all fashions that now look dated. You still get the very rare person dressing this way but it looks odd dated. The tattoo craze will be the same. They all have the same types of tattoos and body modifications. That now screams "trying to be cool".

While tattoos will never die they will go out of mainstream fashion the craze that's happening over here at the moment.
Dr Spektor
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Guess people can move to this next if they desire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarification
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Withnail
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Sorry about my rant but I stand by my claims about manning and Davidson.

And I'll add sun readers in to the mix as well. I've earned the right to be cantankerous.

Worst gig ever? Young farmers. Never again.

And finally, we're all supposed to be in the influence and persuasion business. If you can't see how creative editing works on reality shows to promote an agenda you're a little naive.
Yet again that oaf has destroyed my day
Jerome Finley
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MP,

Not being in the UK myself I can only take your word for it. I'm seeing just the opposite here in the states. Tattoos and tattoo art & culture are only gaining in popularity worldwide and it's not going away anytime soon - that much is obvious. With more people from all walks of life, professions and classes getting tattoos now than ever before, the emergence of ink-inspired "reality" television shows and contests, all the new/promising artists coming up and the astonishing quality & realism of their work, the level of professionalism, cleanliness and rising standards of each new shop and parlor appearing (etc) it's something we just have to take in stride.

Personally I don't mind tattoos becoming more popular and hitting the mainstream (they've been here for a long time already!). I never got these tattoos for "style points" or to look cool or to build a character. Like most heavily inked people, I have very personal reasons and meanings behind each and every one of my tattoos. It's part of my Native culture, heritage and spiritual practice. Further, as a hypnotist/hypnotherapist I wanted to push the limits of my craft and test them for myself to see if I could use the combined tools of NLP/DHE, self hypnosis and meditation to direct my mind and control my body to erase the physical sensations and experience of pain. Marking, scarring, piercing, branding and tattooing was a sort of "litmus test" to my own abilities and practical understanding. The same holds true for firewalks, ropes courses, sweat lodges, sundance preparations, long periods of fasting and/or sleep deprivation and everything else I actively ran towards and sought to experience to help better understand myself and my craft at a deep, experiential level.

Granted, it's not for everyone...neither should it be!

If anything I would say the IDEA of tattoos being "cool" or "out there" and only for the "rebellious" types is what's outdated.

You saying that because tattooing is becoming more common, popular, ordinary and everyday in nature is unfair when followed by the statement, "it's lost whatever the original people got tattooed for." That's a huge assumption, gross generalization and projection/"mind reading" and you of all people should be one who knows better. Smile

My reasons for being tattooed will not ever be lost or forgotten. Those same feelings, intentions and personal goals still continue to inform my work all these years later. Mind you this is coming from someone that already had tattoos put on, removed with lasers and tattooed over again years later; this includes plenty of cover-ups, a lifetime worth of touch ups and everything else that comes with the territory.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that tattoos are timeless and here to stay no matter what the current fashion trend. Now, if the people wearing them could just follow suit... Smile Smile Smile

To end, if a person gets a tattoo to boost their "scene points" or look cool or feel like a tough guy - I think they've asked to be passed over and deserve being left with a permanent marking long after their fad has ceased to be a fad.

My opinion only,
J.
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mastermindreader
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I've had my tattoos long before many of the posters here were born, and I'll still have them long after I'm dead. (Provided I'm embalmed properly.)
mindpunisher
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Jerome

You are one of those people that got tattoos for a specific reason. And I would imagine Bob is too. Tattoos are tattoos at the moment over here they have been abducted by the fashion sheep. And that's the people who have never really been fashionable but try hard to.

Also a lot of over stretched ear lobes going on..... and plastic surgeons sewing them back up...

Having said that Im going in for a hair transplant if I can get it to be long and grey like Bob's..

If I were to get tattooed I would buy a tattoo gun and do it myself in the dark because I like surprises and believe in being an individual...

Actually not having tattoos is making me special and unique at the moment.
Jerome Finley
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Quote:
On 2014-02-16 16:38, mindpunisher wrote:
Jerome

You are one of those people that got tattoos for a specific reason. And I would imagine Bob is too. Tattoos are tattoos at the moment over here they have been abducted by the fashion sheep. And that's the people who have never really been fashionable but try hard to.

Also a lot of over stretched ear lobes going on..... and plastic surgeons sewing them back up...

Having said that Im going in for a hair transplant if I can get it to be long and grey like Bob's..

If I were to get tattooed I would buy a tattoo gun and do it myself in the dark because I like surprises and believe in being an individual...

Actually not having tattoos is making me special and unique at the moment.


:)

Like many other things, a lot of people jump into tattoos, piercings and body modifications without REALLY thinking it through first. They would have saved themselves a lot of time, discomfort and money had they just sat with their idea for a year or two before going through with it. Hard to do when you're jumping on the fad train and bandwagon though, right?

Hopefully they'll live and learn a (painful) lesson.

Most don't!

J.
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mindpunisher
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Yes in the meantime it can be amusing...
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So, is the assumption that wrinkly, jowly, flabby elderly folk are in some way marred by a faded tattoo? Fascinating.

Nobody gets out of here alive, folks. Gather ye rosebuds etc etc
DekEl
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I've actually heard one of the roofie lines before. You can't really laugh it off. The guy tried to do so, but I was still wincing at it.

There's just no reason to go to many of these depths. In terms of learning a trick just to get attention from girls, on the surface it's a bit sad, but underneath it's revealing about something of a broken state of masculinity. I'm not sure what could cause it, but subject lines obviously targeted to this demographic kept popping up in my inbox. The growing mechanism/machine that is fueling this sort of thought and cashing in on it is at least equally responsible and sad.

I don't really have a comment on tattoos in mentalism other than I have in the past considered getting them for the purpose of a permanent memory for certain things.
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Sean Giles
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The assumptions that are made here are a little biased, I seriously doubt anyone has got tattoo's because they are a mentalist. It's an asthetic choice. Are mentalists influenced after seeing other mentalists with tattoo's? Quite possibly, but it's no different than being influenced by a famous sportsman/artist/friend etc. Corelation does not imply causation.

best,
Sean
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2014-02-17 03:48, Sean Giles wrote:
The assumptions that are made here are a little biased, I seriously doubt anyone has got tattoo's because they are a mentalist. It's an asthetic choice. Are mentalists influenced after seeing other mentalists with tattoo's? Quite possibly, but it's no different than being influenced by a famous sportsman/artist/friend etc. Corelation does not imply causation.

best,
Sean


Biased in what way? Biased towards what? Anyone who follows others are not the source not the original. They follow because they do not have the ability to think for themselves to have the courage to be themselves. Or maybe they just don't know who they are.

Everbody supposedly has their own reasons..... Whenever I see bandwagon being built I RUN in the opposite direction long before everyone jumps on it. Because that's a place I never want to find myself. By the time the bandwagon is ready to roll the journey is over. The destination is void.
Sean Giles
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Quote:
On 2014-02-17 06:04, mindpunisher wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-02-17 03:48, Sean Giles wrote:
The assumptions that are made here are a little biased, I seriously doubt anyone has got tattoo's because they are a mentalist. It's an asthetic choice. Are mentalists influenced after seeing other mentalists with tattoo's? Quite possibly, but it's no different than being influenced by a famous sportsman/artist/friend etc. Corelation does not imply causation.

best,
Sean


Biased in what way? Biased towards what? Anyone who follows others are not the source not the original. They follow because they do not have the ability to think for themselves to have the courage to be themselves. Or maybe they just don't know who they are.

Everbody supposedly has their own reasons..... Whenever I see bandwagon being built I RUN in the opposite direction long before everyone jumps on it. Because that's a place I never want to find myself. By the time the bandwagon is ready to roll the journey is over. The destination is void.


You are making huge assumptions about peoples motivations. Maybe they just like tattoos - who knows, why do you assume they have a lack of courage or ability to think for themselves.

It's a gross generalization and it's lazy thinking. Someone who is covered with tattoos might look at this very thread and think that someone who has 5555 posts is socially inept and needs to get a life. That would be the same type of false assumption and over generalization (i have 2200 myself and a very active life)

Do you get what I mean, it's easy pickings to make sweeping assumptions. Maybe there are some who only got tatoos after seeing Jerome Finley or Peter Turner covered with them but it hardly means they can't think for themselves or lack courage. Perhaps they always wanted tattoos but were unsure until they were inspired by the likes of Peter, Jerome, Colin etc.
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