The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Trouble post Hypnotic induction (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

JRediens
View Profile
Regular user
Roma, Italy
147 Posts

Profile of JRediens
Hi, I am training in hynosis since october. I attended a couple of courses by Marco Pacori who has a very scientific approach, good theorycrafting and application about how our mind works in trance, and what is hypnosis) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F789jgCIT......6E91BA04
the method is strong and reliable, it works even if the subject does not know you are an hypnotist. and mostly non verbal in trance induction.
And I have Manchurian Approach DVD.
My problem is:

I do not have problem to induce trance, and suggestions, general loss of control of legs and arms but I really cannot induce a posthypnotic induction. Neither with Pacori method nor Anthony. What I do it is already a bit of a show but I'd like to push it further.
In your experience it is a matter of deepness of trance, subject or script?
Jesse Lewis
View Profile
Loyal user
227 Posts

Profile of Jesse Lewis
In my experiance yes no and all of the above.

An open mind is important in hypnosis there are those that say it does not even exist. The answer to the question is not simple.

Deepness of trance- this may be a factor depending on your personal opinion of hypnosis as well as he fractionation you have done in the previous steps or skits.
Subject- while this may also be a problem chances are it is not your subject. One reason that I find many fail is they do not have a plan of where to go. If you are inducing "hypnosis" you may actually be the problem.
Script- if you are using a set script please stop and learn how to pace and lead your subjects according to their reactions and not the script. Every subject is different and needs something different to be placed in that wonderful state.
I would suggest that you learn an induction and suit it to the needs of the person or commitee.

I have a feeling it is somthing you may not have thought of, Are you anchoring them with the right CUE.

In the initial fractionation are you stating that when you do this tey will do that and anchoring it so it happens a few times and they know what to do.

For instance-
"when I say sleep imediatly your head falls forward on your chest your eyes close and you go even deeper lets practice this now eyes open eyes closed and sleep even deeper again eyes open eyes closed and sleep even deeper and again eyes open and sleep even deeper.

Often when I see begining hypnotists fail it is because they do not properly instruct their subjects and while the silent approach to hypnosis is awesome it leaves something to be desired for actual reaction from the subjects.

I have probably now thoughoughly confused you so please ask some questions.
Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9638 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Giving a post-hypnotic suggestion is no different than giving any other type of suggestion in your performance. My guess is that it's not the suggestion but rather you, your execution.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19818 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Yea post hypnotic suggestion is simply a theatrical term used by hypnotists and nothing more. The phenomenon is not different.

More study is in order. I do not know where you learned but stagecraft is much different from scientific approach.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19818 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Jessie I have seen that approach taken to extremes and the show at some point amounts to little more than sketch comedy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JRediens
View Profile
Regular user
Roma, Italy
147 Posts

Profile of JRediens
Thanks Jesse, as you said it is probably a mix of things. I do not really get what you mean with:If you are inducing "hypnosis" you may actually be the problem
And yes probably you right it is the fractionation process I'm not doing well.
JRediens
View Profile
Regular user
Roma, Italy
147 Posts

Profile of JRediens
Danny I know well the difference beetwin stagecraft and theory just took the chance to point out to whom might be interested a source.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19818 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I am sorry because from your first post and question it seemed as if you didn't see the difference. Even your last question seems to indicate you may not understand as much as you think. But you are good so no need to help.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9638 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
One of the problems with newbies is they do think they know more than they do, and secondly they take everything they see on video at face value, most often out of it's full context. Two components that will work strongly against you (and of course the ol' practicing on family and friends).
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6132 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
A post hypnotic suggestion is where you set up an almost conditioned reflex for a person to respond to an environmental trigger. They exist in therapy and on stage. A key reinduction word or suggestion is a post hypnotic suggestion. "When I count to three you will be wide awake but when I snap my fingers you will go back to sleep instantly". "when you hear this music__________you will believe you are a rock star jump up and down in time with the music - when the music stops you will wonder what the hell you are doing".

These are all post hypnotic suggestions that work automatically when the set up "triggers" are fired. They work and are usually beyond the control of those on stage. In order to get someone to accept post hypnotic suggestions to the max you must condition them over a series of accepting simple suggestions leading up to more complex. However once you get them to that point you can give them post hypnotics all night. So long as one suggestion doesn't conflict with another.

The difference between a comedy skit show and a hypnosis show is you are using hypnosis to elicit unusual and more intense responses from every day people USING HYPNOSIS. A comedy skit show is created by script writers and actors. That may seem obvious but in reality they are two different things as the responses and where the humor is created are different for both.

Post hypnotic suggestions are real and can also be used in therapy business and sport to lock in a better all round performance or behaviour. They are also real on stage.

Sometimes if you have done shows for a long time you just do it you give suggestions with no effort because youve done them so many times it seems easy. But post hypnotics etc are present.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19818 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
When you direct them to much you may as well forego the trance and do sketch comedy.

Some new hypnotists are afraid to let the scene develop. They get worried if they are not getting what they think they want and end up telling them to do things. For my taste (mind you it is only an opinion.) that approach looks far too manufactured. Some older hypnotists do it because they know no better.

Now mind you there are times where coaching helps. Like anything it is a blend.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Anthony Jacquin
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
2220 Posts

Profile of Anthony Jacquin
Quote:
On 2014-02-17 13:27, mindpunisher wrote:
A post hypnotic suggestion is where you set up an almost conditioned reflex for a person to respond to an environmental trigger.


What do you mean 'conditioned reflex'?

When are you doing the conditioning?
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6132 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
Do you really need me to post dictionary definitions?

Noun 1. conditioned reflex - an acquired response that is under the control of (conditional on the occurrence of) a stimulusconditioned reflex - an acquired response that is under the control of (conditional on the occurrence of) a stimulus
acquired reflex, conditional reaction, conditional reflex, conditional response, conditioned reaction, conditioned response
learned reaction, learned response - a reaction that has been acquired by learning
conditioned avoidance, conditioned avoidance response - a conditioned response that anticipates the occurrence of an aversive stimulus


Post hypnpotic suggestions are acquired responses......a form of "learning to respond" They are installed when someone has reached a certain level state or whatever label you want to use. That state and it is a state is arrived at by conditioning. Call it what you want it doesn't change anything. you use conditioing too. you don't do anything different.

And you know post hypnotic suggestions can't be installed if someone hasn't been hypnotized ( think the clue is in the word "post)usually through compounding suggestions. An escalation of suggestions being accepted to a point where almost any suggestion will be accepted and acted upon... whether the person wants to or not (to a degree).

But if I am wrong show me. But I am not no one can do a proper full stage show without conditioning. Even the shows that claim non hypnosis hypnosis shows still use conditioning.

The other thing about hypnosis is although it involves conditioning it can be terminated with a single sentence. Which makes it unique and is one of the reasons no one can say exactly or agree to what what it is.
Anthony Jacquin
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
2220 Posts

Profile of Anthony Jacquin
No need for dictionary definitions. Post-hypnotic suggestions are normally delivered with one sentence, hence my question. You are suggesting everything that went before them represents the conditioning. Thanks for making that clear.

Odd that they can be undone so quick. I had no idea that was one of the reasons no one can agree what hypnosis is.
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
Jesse Lewis
View Profile
Loyal user
227 Posts

Profile of Jesse Lewis
Danny I agree with you about the show possibly looking manufactured if used too much.

One point I would like to make for everyone is he stated post hypnotic INDUCTION this would indicate a problem reinducing or putting back under which is where the fractionation I talked about comes into play. At that point in my opinion it does not look like Sketch comedy but like a person going into hypnosis.

Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6132 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
Quote:
On 2014-02-18 02:57, Anthony Jacquin wrote:
No need for dictionary definitions. Post-hypnotic suggestions are normally delivered with one sentence, hence my question. You are suggesting everything that went before them represents the conditioning. Thanks for making that clear.

Odd that they can be undone so quick. I had no idea that was one of the reasons no one can agree what hypnosis is.


Not only can they be undone by a single sentence as you pointed out they also be created with a single sentence but behave similar to a conditioned reflex although the conditioning is really done before during the "hypnotizing".

Its no wonder there is so many points of view and debates about what it is?

Its a bit likethe effect of the conditioning can be passed using suggestion?
JonChase
View Profile
Loyal user
Exeter, UK
208 Posts

Profile of JonChase
No stage hypnosis is done, if done well, post hypnotically. Although nearly all of it if it's any good is done Sans trance, but that's a different story.

And being physically in trance isn't the only time they are in hypnosis. Although the people who will sell you 'Waking Hypnosis training' won't tell you that. Actually to be fair they don't get it and probably think that eyes open is post hypnotic, that's just wrong.

Also conscious awareness and the level of such has nothing to do with 'Post Hypnotic'.

Hypnosis involves the connection through communication of the hypnotised and hypnotist. If the person hypnotised is reacting to the hypnotists suggestion regardless of their conscious awareness, but without being able to consciously interviene, and the hypnotist has left the scene and isn't directing or managing the hypnotised persons state directly, then that is Post the hypnosis.

And that should never happen in Stage hypnosis, that's how we got the 1952 hypnotism act in the UK in the first place through rumours of people doing stuff after shows.
Smiles

Jon Chase



http://jonathanchase.com
JonChase
View Profile
Loyal user
Exeter, UK
208 Posts

Profile of JonChase
No stage hypnosis is done, if done well, post hypnotically. Although nearly all of it if it's any good is done Sans trance, but that's a different story.

And being physically in trance isn't the only time they are in hypnosis. Although the people who will sell you 'Waking Hypnosis training' won't tell you that. Actually to be fair they don't get it and probably think that eyes open is post hypnotic, that's just wrong.

Also conscious awareness and the level of such has nothing to do with 'Post Hypnotic'.

Hypnosis involves the connection through communication of the hypnotised and hypnotist. If the person hypnotised is reacting to the hypnotists suggestion regardless of their conscious awareness, but without being able to consciously interviene, and the hypnotist has left the scene and isn't directing or managing the hypnotised persons state directly, then that is Post the hypnosis.

And that should never happen in Stage hypnosis, that's how we got the 1952 hypnotism act in the UK in the first place through rumours of people doing stuff after shows.
Smiles

Jon Chase



http://jonathanchase.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Trouble post Hypnotic induction (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL