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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Deckless! » » My tweaking of B'wave By Phil Goldstein (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Theodore Lawton
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I haven't always gotten the reactions I wanted with this so I played around and came up with this handling that makes the reveal much more magical- in my opinion. I love this little packet trick.

When I begin the effect I ask the spectator to help me with an experiment in imagination, pretty much like the original. But I say to imagine I have the 4 queens while doing an Elmsley count followed by a Jordan count.

I tell them to think of, or choose either the black or red queens and adjust the patter accordingly. I think you can figure this part out.

Really drive home the fact that this has been, and is, all a free choice of theirs and then allow them to choose which one we keep.

Have them imagine to turn it over in the packet.

For the reveal it really blows them away to spread the top and bottom card and then do the 2nd and 3rd while saying that a card has indeed now turned over. They just saw all the cards twice and this wasn't the case.

And the back of this one is now red. I like to casually handle this with my thumb strategically placed and use it to gesture to the other cards.

Then the blanks- the cards that we got rid of- just adds icing to the cake.

You can optionally finish it by saying that this was just all an experiment with their imagination and do another Elmsley showing all blue backs again. You could then do one last Jordan or just move 1 card to the bottom and you're reset.

It may not seem like much, but the reactions I got with this at a gig and at home with my daughter who has already seen me do B'wave (she's 26) were awesome.

"That's amazing," and "Incredible," were what I heard at the gig. The counts seem to add a lot to the effect.
mlippo
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Sorry, but I do not agree with you. B'Wave is not magic nor sleight of hand that makes a card turn over in your hands. The point is that you ALREADY KNEW which queen would me chosen and therefore you had already taken it from a different coloured pack AND turned it over in your packet.

Besides going back to show the cards all the same colour again makes things even worse..

I'm eager to see what others think of this.

mlippo
magicfish
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This has been done by many others before you.
videoman
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You should try out Duplicity by John Bannon. It has completely replaced B'wave and Twisted Sisters for me.
Spec gets to pick (free choice) one packet of cards to hold and then spreads them themselves, so it happens literally in their hands.
Everything is totally clean at the end, and very little E is needed and the handling and sleights are about the same.
Super clean routine.
I could never go back to the gaffed cards.
Theodore Lawton
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I figured it was done by others before me. I also figured some would disagree with me.

I shared it anyway thinking someone might benefit.

It gets good reactions.

Have a great day! Smile
magicfish
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No problem, Theodore, thanks for sharing.
fonda57
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Good that you are creative, but I wouldn't tweak B'Wave myself. It's beautiful just the way it is, there's no sleight of hand, and you essentially get three effects out of it. Doing Elmsley and Jordan counts before and after suggests you are "doing something." the way I see it.

But since you are getting good reactions, what the hell?
I j
Rocky
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I like that the idea works for the people who matter...the audience. Sometimes magicians think more about how an effect should be performed rather than actually performing it.
fonda57
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My thoughts were along the lines of, since it is technically easy to perform, it is easier to involve/engage the audience.

In my view, continually counting the cards face down can draw suspicion since only the backs are shown, and you are expecting them to just take for granted that they are queens simply because you said so. Seems like over proving something that does not need to be proven. Counting them after the effect to show they are all blue and face down again strongly hints that you are "doing something." I think it's dangerous to just expect an audience not to think.

Still, since it works for him, that's great. But I wouldnt do it that way.
I j
Mb217
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I think the audience is always what's most important, and a good laymen audience is always better than an audience of magicians. Smile Thank God that's the way it most often is. Smile

I have done B'wave for many years. It's a great effect. I have complicated it and kept it simple, and find that when it's simply put is about the best, for the reasons that fonda gives here above, that it makes it easier to stay engaged with the specs. I think that's what is is so very nice about the trick…It allows you to keep the specs in focus all the way through.

I like to see creativity, it shows thinking… But oftentimes once you've thought your away around a thing, you sometimes come back to about where you started with it to see that it was about perfect to begin with. Smile B'wave is one of those sorts of effects to me. In fact, most times you will hear good voices tell you to not use the EC to show 4 face down cards. A card turning over from a face down set is sorta magical, more so than what B'wave is more so intended as, which is a mind-reading effect, IMHO. It can be important in these relative genres not to mix the two for fear of losing the potency of one. The whole effect plays of some clever mind-reading/imagination stuff, and it happens as per the specs. To me, the Queen turning over is more a magical sorta thing, and I think mostly gets lost in the overall effect of you telling them what you simply thought they would do as to all the hand-holding as you walk them through the effect. But, I guess it can be done that way if you like, and I sorta remember in the old instructions long ago that Phil Goldstein (aka Max Maven) might've mentioned showing the 4 cards face down (via EC) first(?).

Also, I think if this is playing well for Theo, then by all means, proceed. Smile I suspect there will be more learning on all this and the effect will continue to take more stealthy turns before you finally make camp with it. Smile

For me, I've carried it for years and do it now & again when I have that much time to do such an engaging trick with cards. Smile The fun & beauty is in the path you lead the specs unwittingly down toward a resolve they think they had something to do with. It really is an amazing trick, that I have seen presented in several ways. Either which way, it always heavily involves the specs. The better versions have been those that don't give in to much "card magic" manipulation of the cards. As to fine relatives like "Twisted Sister" and "Duplicity" (Both fabulous takes on the basic B'wave premise by the venerable, John Bannon), I've also done them and found them to be nicely kicked-up-a-notch extended versions but I still prefer the overall simplicity of B'wave. I'm just sayin', and to each his own. Smile

Like fonda says, it's an easy trick to do, one where you work much more on yourself to present it well than on any such moves to make it happen or seem more believable. Less is truly more in this classic effect. Smile

Good string and talk here. Smile
*Check out my latest: The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
TheRaven
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What is amazing about b'wave is that the spectators feel that three different magical effects have occurred in succession when there is really only one.
dduane
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I agree with the comments above on keeping the original version - keeping it simple. However, I also believe that Theodore's version does work better for him. I know that when I put my own ideas into an effect, that I have more enthusiasm and present it better. That in itself will get me better reactions. It's sometimes more of a challenge to keep the effect as it was created and intended (which often is the best way to do it) while presenting it as if it was your original idea -- to help make it more magical.

Just my thoughts...
TheRaven
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Quote:
On Feb 24, 2014, mlippo wrote:
... The point is that you ALREADY KNEW which queen would me chosen and therefore you had already taken it from a different coloured pack AND turned it over in your packet.


I don't necessarily agree with this. I think the mystery of the card turning over can be explained different ways. I use a patter involving the power of imagination which is demonstrated 3 ways...
1. The thought of card turns over
2. The spectator focused so hard on the color of the card that the back changed to red too.
3. The spectator imagined the other cards fading away (this I introduce as a term in the equivique) so effectively that the faces became blank.
Theodore Lawton
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Raven- That's the angle I used. I would emphasize they are using their imagination the whole time. And look- their imagination became reality. Eyes widen- looks of astonishment. No one ever suspects I influenced their selection. It really took the trick, for me and the people I've shown it to anyway, from a really good one to jaw-dropping amazement.

dduane- I like what you have to say here. I believe you're correct. The reason it works so well for me is because I've made it mine. I tried to work it as it was written, but when I thought of doing it this way it just felt right, fit my personality, whatever. I admit it wouldn't be for everybody, but it has really produced great reactions from the people I've shared it with.

Mb- You may be right. I may go back to the original. Smile !

I just thought the angle of "knowing what one they would choose" for me, weakens the effect because they can suspect influence. Almost in the way I feel showing that, "I have two extra foreign coins," during C/S/B weakens the effect. When I would get to that part of C/S/B I could see the look in their eyes that said the magic had been weakened. I know you are setting them up for the ending, but then they just wonder how many coins DO you have in your pockets? That's why I also played around and came up with my own twists that never hint at extra coins and I still end clean.

But- great conversation! I love the Café so much for this reason. And I may be completely wrong and go back to doing the originals later, but I really appreciate all the wisdom the real working pros have to share around here. I'm working hard toward becoming a working pro; it really is my dream to be a magician and do something I love for a living. Thanks for listening to my semi-pro ideas with polite acceptance.
Vlad_77
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I too am enjoying the conversation Theodore! As for me, I have always played Twisted Sisters as more of an experiment than a magic effect. In fact, I don't perform the EC at the beginning. To me at least there is motivation for it IF the effect is presented as a "let's try something weird" approach. Borrowing a bit from J.K. Hartman's work in Trickery Treats on an unrelated effect, I've developed a presentation that has never failed me and has never caused the punters to grab the cards.

I firmly believe that neither Max Maven's B'Wave nor John Bannon's Twisted Sisters need any "moves" whatsoever but I hasten to add that I am not at all implying that my thinking on this is the correct way, only that it is the correct for me. Smile

Fun thread and it's great to see Marion posting in here! I remember when this coin wizard - and folks he IS a veritable wizard with the coin of the realm - started dabbling with card magic. I was so humbled that he asked my opinion on his early forays into the 'boards. I am a veritable hack and this "smoove" artist asked me! Anyhow, Marion's understanding of card magic is really a breath of fresh air in that since his specialty has been coins, he brings a unique perspective to card work that some of us who are steeped in cards may have not thought about.

Slainte,
Vlad
JeffreyMichael1127
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I do the Elmsley Count by explaining that there are 4 queens. I just come right out and have them name a queen out loud. I would say 90% of the time, people name the queen of hearts. The other 10% of the time they name the diamond. This takes care of that magician's force that I never really liked. It also makes for such a stronger impact when they could name any queen. If they do name the spade or club (rarely, but ok) then I name the other black card...then I name the two read and go into the remove 2 queens bit. But try it......just ask someone to name a queen....90% of the time it is the heart.
Theodore Lawton
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Interesting.
Leo H
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2014, JeffreyMichael1127 wrote:
I do the Elmsley Count by explaining that there are 4 queens. I just come right out and have them name a queen out loud. I would say 90% of the time, people name the queen of hearts. The other 10% of the time they name the diamond. This takes care of that magician's force that I never really liked. It also makes for such a stronger impact when they could name any queen. If they do name the spade or club (rarely, but ok) then I name the other black card...then I name the two read and go into the remove 2 queens bit. But try it......just ask someone to name a queen....90% of the time it is the heart.


A great post Jeffrey. This is something I also notice, that the Queen of Hearts is usually named first. You can bypass the whole equivoque by trying this first.
GlenD
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If doing it as a "magic trick", perhaps with a bit of mentalism included then the way you are going through it sounds pretty cool. I have been doing B'Wave for a number of years and early on had it pointed out to me about the benefits and intentions of keeping it purely as a mentalism effect. And try to resist showing the backs and elmsey counting etc...My presentation has been one which closely resembles the one Dave Devlin showed me many years ago. I also have the jumbo B'Wave and enjoy doing it from stage or in parlor settings.
I love the reactions I get, most of the time BTW!

Glen
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
tstrong2
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Ultimately, you have to judge for yourself whether it works better one way or the other with your audiences. You have to develop your own style and patter that is personalized for you. If it gives you confidence, flows freely and smoothly, and gets you the reactions that you want; isn't that what you are really after anyway? Every audience is going to be a little different. And magicians are going to be the worst critics. Simplicity often works best, but for obvious reasons, magicians tend to over-complicate it. In the end, the true measure of a magician is the number of people that they actually entertain. Not the number of people that they imagine entertaining. Do your own R&D in the field, in front of an audience, and find what works best for you.
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