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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalism Reveals 3 (229 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Adam Meier
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I don’t have MR3, but stand behind the customers here. The dealers who support him is not good in my eyes. Great job trying to sort it out in the first place Michael, but now you have to do the next job. Stop selling his other products.
qkeli
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paris,france
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I can understand the frustration and madness against Mark Elsdon but Michael Murray can’t be blame for trying to sort out the situation or saling his other products, if you stop buying from Murray then I think you’ll stop buying from all the dealers who carry Mark Elsdon’s products, Penguin, Vanishing......most of them !
I was recently at a convention where Mark elsdon was too but I heard no one asking him about MR3 released....
Michael Murray is one of the nicest guy i’ve met and i’ll always support him because I know he is loyal and honest and sometimes too kind maybe.

But I totally understand all the fuzz against Mark Elsdon and would be crazy if I had bought a product 6 years ago 100£ Without receiving it....
Adam Meier
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It has nothing to do with Michael alone, but rather people in the business selling Elsdon`s creations. I was looking over what Elsdon was offering and there were a couple of things that was interesting, but I would never buy anything from him in respect for all the people he have let down. And this should also count for magic dealers. They should shut him down in respect for the customers who has been deceived by him.
celebrity
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So, comparatively I actually sell very few of Elsdon's products compared with many other stores. Among the items I did sell were Xenomorph, Limelight & No Way Two Way which were digital products, these have now been removed from my site as a mark of respect to the customers who have been affected by this.

However, the difficulty lies with the other products namely "Tequila Hustler" & "Tequila Hustler 2" (TH2 still pending release) as I purchased the exclusive rights from Mark for these effects three years ago. Considering that Mark no longer profits from these items and one hasn't been released as yet it is not viable for me to take those ones down. Whilst I truly sympathise with anyone who has been affected by Marks actions I can't help but feel that the frustrations are now being vented elsewhere rather than at the main man himself. I do know that if anyone had taken my money and had failed to deliver I would have pursued action privately long before a year had passed.

As I said before and I will say again, Marks handling of this situation has been shambolic to say the least and in hind sight I wish I had never stepped in to help mediate the situation as it has only served to drag me into a mess that never involved me in the first place. In an effort to help you guys further I paid Mark for two orders of expensive products so that he could fund the printing costs one being his Equivoque Workshop DVD's and the other being his Story Telling Workshop (which I haven't yet listed on the site as I prefer to slowly add to the site rather than flood it with new products). Having stepped in to do this to help you guys get your books I am now feel that I am personally being penalised for this and simply can't win either way.

Please consider the following from my point of view -

1) I pressed Mark for news and put pressure on him to complete the book for you guys.
2) I gave him financial support to help cover printing costs so that he can deliver the item owed to you guys (and ofcourse to provide two new products that would be of interest to my customers).
3) I took down the digital products of his as a mark of respect to you guys.
4) Once I have sold out of the remaining Equivoque sets I will list the second item I purchased which is the Story Telling Workshop but won't be buying any more of these.
5) I will however continue to sell Tequila Hustler and will sell Tequila Hustler 2 (when I have time to release) it as Mark does not profit from these as I own the complete rights to them.

Having done all that was within my power to help you guys, I will now take my exit.

Wishing you all the very best and hope that your MR3 saga is brought to an end soon.

Michael

Note: As far as other Magic stores are concerned the vast majority would have purchased individual items or perhaps the exclusive rights to products from Mark without ever being aware of the MR3 book and the story behind it. Some may have purchased items years ago and still have them on their shelves. Is it fair to penalise them because of the mistakes of another. I personally think not but that is not for me to decide, only those affected by this can make the judgement call.
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Adam Meier
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I wish other dealers could be like you Michael. I did not know what you had done her, and have not read the holde story. As I said I have no products from Elsdon. I just sympathize with the people who has bought from him. I will also exit. Good luck to the buyers.

Adam
morgaine_le_fey
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2018, celebrity wrote:
I do know that if anyone had taken my money and had failed to deliver I would have pursued action privately long before a year had passed.


Dear Michael,

I reconsidered my previous post regarding the crooked Elsdon, and shouldn't have pointed fingers to you out of mere frustration.
I stand corrected and will continue to purchase from your admirable site - containing admirable products.

One last remark though: I reacted well within a year (purchase October 2017) but he kept me hanging on to make in to the paypal refund/claim limit and then started answering with denigrating remarks to my mails, basically laughing in my face.

From my side, I've got a solution for european customers and we're pushing this forward.

Thank you Michael for sticking your head in the guillotine but your head shouldn't have rolled...
Please accept my apologies.

Love
Morgaine xxx
Chanku
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I don't post on the Café that often but I feel compelled to chime in - Michael's integrity and customer service is second to none. What's happening is really unfortunate and it's heartening to see Michael take these corrective measures. I won't ever hesitate to support his website.
IAIN
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Mr Murray, sadly no good deed goes unpunished...
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Stunninger
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Michael, thanks for your efforts to help. I've bought items from you in the past, and your customer service has been exceptional.
Joe Roberts
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Just FYI. He's offering 30% off everything on his site now, in case you want to spend 30% less on something you'll never receive.
GusVanNostrum
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I guess that the 30% off is at least a way to give back to all who are upset, not?
John C
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How about if Elsdon sends me the item, when I receive it I will send him the 30% off. Trust me now.

haha

I never hesitate to buy from Michael Murray. The most trusting man in magic.
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swood
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After discussions with people over the years, I recently brought out my first big release. (I won't mention it here as this post isn't about self-promotion.) I was overwhelmed by the response and a number of dealers contacted me to ask if they could stock it, which was very flattering. I responded to each to say that in the first instance I was going to give it to Michael Murray as a time-limited exclusive. To me it was simple and an easy decision to make - it was a mark of thanks for what he's done for me and others. I have no idea whether that was the most lucrative step for me (though Michael is a well known and well respected dealer so there's no reason why it wasn't a good business move) but I don't care. I can always widen the reach at some point but to me people will always be more important than worrying about profit. And I adopted that view from some great people in this community, with Michael right up there.

I know of a number of situations where Michael has used his influence and support to help others behind the scenes, costing him time and in some cases money as well. I also know he hasn't always received the same back, but he cheerfully continues to support people and doesn't let it affect him. Nobody else could organise the MINDS convention in the same way that he does, and those who have been lucky to attend will say just how special it is because of him. As just one small example, amongst the craziness of putting everything else together this year he made sure that he found the time to help provide opportunities for several creators to showcase new products (I was amongst them and remain grateful to him for that - he did it without asking for anything in return and long before we discussed him stocking my effect). He surrounds himself with a group of close mentalism friends who are fiercely loyal - not because they are 'yes' people, but because they have each seen the constant support and kindness that he extends to others and they know he is just 'one of the good guys'. In fact each and every one of them deserves that same phrase, and together they are a truly positive group.

I'm not going to comment on Mentalism Reveals 3 - it didn't and doesn't involve me and it would be presumptious for me to dive in on it - but Michael has done what he could to support the whole community in helping to bring resolution. It's great that having seen more of the full picture, some have come on and amended their view in attacking Michael for it. That's entirely right in my view and is to their credit - it's just one more example of Michael helping to clear up a mess that was not of his making. Most of the time we don't get to hear about when that happens - let's not shoot him down because he's been forced to reveal more than usual in a public forum. And I hope that amongst the sour taste surrounding that release for those who invested in it (which I completely understand) at some stage some of those affected will find the opportunity to thank him for helping to salvage things as much as possible. And if it's too raw to do that, then at least to themselves to acknowledge his role in helping to move things on for them.
Tim Cavendish
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So Elsdon still hasn't produced the actual paid-for book yet, right?

Electrons do not a book make.
Withnail
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Yet again that oaf has destroyed my day
Bartelli
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Quote:

No need to bring this up again. This is already known.
Martin Pulman
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This is truly a pathetic situation all round. Maybe, rather than asking dealers to boycott creators, we as a community should start a movement to boycott pre-orders, making them an unacceptable selling tactic?

PS: i’ve never met Michael Murray (I don’t think?), but in all my years of purchasing mentalism products he has always struck me as a totally honest and upright guy. We need more like him.
Marko Ragnos
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Why nobody report to PayPal? It's possible to block his account?
Tim Cavendish
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2018, Marko Ragnos wrote:
Why nobody report to PayPal? It's possible to block his account?

Because he took people's money for this book 6 years ago.
Bartelli
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August, no book.
@Michael Murray: we all know (or a least we should) you are the good guy here. No need to defend yourself.
About boycotting pre-orders: I can imagine sometimes people need some funding before they can make the physical products. I have no problem with pre-orders. Even not with one or two unkept promises. I do have a problem with people who keep lying.
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