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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Scam School Exposure (41 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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SolidSnake
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I noticed this being discussed a little while ago and people generally being ok with scam school.

For those that don't know, scam school is a very popular YouTube channel where various tricks are demonstrated then taught.

Now some are no more than basic bar bets. But there are others that really expose methods - especially card methods. Even when the presenter is not demonstrating some moves, he openly discusses them. Such as saying 'you can see I'm not holding br**ks or sticking my pi**ky in there'. Even more worrying magician s such as Ammar and Garcia have been on the show and exposed some of their own marketed effects.

Now this is a very popular channel not just with performers but with a lot of lay people too. It is very worrying the shear number of techniques that are discussed and exposed. Remember this is not just some teenager showing a trick with only a few hits.

This is videos with thousands of views and over half a million subs. The creater of this channel is raking it in while giving away a lot of our secrets.

Surely this is not good for working performers?
There is no holy grail!
Amro
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Although I like Brian I have to say that I share your concerns. The problem is, for the sake of having a sucessful youtube-channel, he mixes "harmless effects" (e.g. physical phenomena and bar bets) with mentalism-principles (e.g. 1 ah**d).

Surely we have to remind ourselves to not exaggerate (well, I have to remind myself because this is a matter of the heart for me) but I think giving away this kind of stuff for free to lay people, who were maybe just looking for a cool bar bet is ... not ok.

As soon half the audience knows about a principle like Mag Choi*e I fear it is pretty much ruined even for the most skilful performer. It has happened before (e.g. the carrot psy-f*rce (see PS2 Banachek)).
SolidSnake
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Yep I hear you. Surprised more people do not have more thoughts on this
There is no holy grail!
purpleflag
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It's nice that it might inspire a couple of folk to start in magic, but exposing for a massive audience lots of details that are used in many of the biggest tricks.
Penn & Teller & the masked magician may have 'exposed' tricks but by the next day most people will all have forgotten them. With scam school they are not just explained in a way people will forget but taught in detail so they won't forget them!


Ian
Steve_Mollett
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If they are not interested beyond a moment of curiosity, they will still tend to forget.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Gill
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I believe it doesn't make a difference if a layperson knows of DLs or other basic moves, as he or she won't be expecting you to do this moves. With misdirection and patter comes the opportunity to perform any sleight unseen.
When I perform I usually just think that people aren't looking for sleights or br**ks. As Shawn Farquhar said in his Penguin Live lecture; 'Dont run if nobody's chasing you.' (Probably someone else's quote)


Although I'm not a huge fan of scam school I think the show kindles interest in magic among teenagers and younger magicians, thus is a valuable asset to the magic community.
Slim King
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I also have known Brian for years and I'm 110% against exposure of magic ... This isn't what it claims to be ... He isn't just exposing bar bets ... He's giving it all away for free ... basic workhorses like K%% Cards and the In%%%%%% D%%%%... to name a few. I think karma stops him soon ... I am not alone in this thinking. Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Shawn Farquhar
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"As Shawn Farquhar said in his Penguin Live lecture; 'Dont run if nobody's chasing you.' (Probably someone else's quote)" in fact I believe it was Al Baker who said it first. ;-)
Trickstar
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Quote:
On May 11, 2014, Steve_Mollett wrote:
If they are not interested beyond a moment of curiosity, they will still tend to forget.


They may forget the specifics, but they still know they knew.... they are the kind fellas that pipe up and say mid-way through your routine and announce "oh I saw how to do that on youtube".. even if your performance is flawless this distracts and detracts from the effect
Steve_Mollett
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And if you are a good performer, you brush them off as you would any other heckler.
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Trickstar
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Quote:
On Jul 20, 2014, Steve_Mollett wrote:
And if you are a good performer, you brush them off as you would any other heckler.


Sure... not really the point, but okay, your opinion is that exposure is fine because we get to flex our performance muscle in an undesirable situation and come out on top, correct?

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion. Personally I would prefer less hecklers rather than more, perhaps if I ever get as good as you I may agree with you, currently I do not.
Terapin
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As a buggy whip manufacturer, I would prefer a world where my line of business had not been disrupted by technological changes, but we don't always get to stop the world to suit our interests. We need to adapt, and use the fact that these tricks are commonly known, not rant about how these sites shouldn't exist.
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2014, Trickstar wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 20, 2014, Steve_Mollett wrote:
And if you are a good performer, you brush them off as you would any other heckler.


Sure... not really the point, but okay, your opinion is that exposure is fine because we get to flex our performance muscle in an undesirable situation and come out on top, correct?

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion. Personally I would prefer less hecklers rather than more, perhaps if I ever get as good as you I may agree with you, currently I do not.


What I am saying is CHANGE HAPPENS, including the rise and fall of sites like these. As an artist, your job is to ride the winds of change, including negative change, and continue to follow you muse despite the critics, hecklers and exposers who will inevitably appear and fade.
Instead of trying to unmake or ban change, which you cannot, strive instead to be a PRO, pursuing your art in spite of change.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Terapin
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Exactly. I've often seen effects that have been exposed, and I know how they work, but they are performed so well that I'm still fooled.
Trickstar
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Quote:
On Jul 28, 2014, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2014, Trickstar wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 20, 2014, Steve_Mollett wrote:
And if you are a good performer, you brush them off as you would any other heckler.


Sure... not really the point, but okay, your opinion is that exposure is fine because we get to flex our performance muscle in an undesirable situation and come out on top, correct?

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion. Personally I would prefer less hecklers rather than more, perhaps if I ever get as good as you I may agree with you, currently I do not.


What I am saying is CHANGE HAPPENS, including the rise and fall of sites like these. As an artist, your job is to ride the winds of change, including negative change, and continue to follow you muse despite the critics, hecklers and exposers who will inevitably appear and fade.
Instead of trying to unmake or ban change, which you cannot, strive instead to be a PRO, pursuing your art in spite of change.


I agree with you. but that doesn't mean people can't have a little winge about it on an internet forum... Its not like it's an awesome and/or desirable thing, it is quite obviously not desirable for an artform based on secrets to have those secrets available to anyone with an internet connection. But yes you are correct we need to adapt.
Terapin
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The art isn't based on secrets. If it were then there would be no practicing magicians. All of the 'secrets' are available to anyone with enough interest to spend 10 minutes researching on the internet. The art is based on skill and performance.
Terapin
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Your unfortunate personal abuse aside, I believe that smart people with integrity can disagree. I think the constant whining from magicians about secrecy is hugely counter-productive, leading to the kind of image problems that are typified by the fact that when you type in "magicians are" into Google the fourth most common hit is 'annoying' (after demonic, satanic, and evil). In my experience people don't find the obsession with secrecy charming or entertaining, they find it annoying and smug.
The 'magic' of any performance is in the presentation and performance. Nobody believes that you are psychic - they know perfectly well the kind of thing you're doing - the fact that they have not yet found the youtube video exposing it (if indeed that is even true) is just a matter of time, and if your show depends on that then you're doing something wrong.
Dougini
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Quote:
On Jul 30, 2014, Terapin wrote:
I think the constant whining from magicians about secrecy is hugely counter-productive...


I am not going to take offense at that. You are entitled to your opinion. I, myself, am agreement with Slim King...

Quote:
...when you type in "magicians are" into Google the fourth most common hit is 'annoying' (after demonic, satanic, and evil). In my experience people don't find the obsession with secrecy charming or entertaining, they find it annoying and smug.


I found out the hard way, yesterday. I did a bit of magic for folks waiting at The Food Bank. The lady turned away, with the comment, " SHOWOFF!" Yep. I was annoying. First time that has happened in YEARS. Ordinarily, people find me charming. Not yesterday! Smile

Doug
Terapin
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That's pretty funny.
Dougini
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Just shows ta go ya...not everyone enjoys magic... Smile
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