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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Scam School Exposure (41 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Yea discussion is only fun when it is others behavior that is questioned.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ScamSchoolBrian
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Quote:
I think you have a valid endevor and the stidents that pit in that kind of time are truly interested. However, I would bet money that more than 90 percent of the people that use your channel will never try a magic trick for anyone.


(apologies for letting this sit a while. Got a bit busy there)

I think this is the tricky area: once either of us start making up numbers, there's really not a logical debate to be had.

If we wanted to know if YouTube magic education is a net positive or negative for the art, we'd need comparable percentages of people who have read magic books or got magic kits, yet never pursued magic. FWIW, my gut says those percentages are pretty much the same.

If there is a higher percentage of youtube dabblers, I'd suggest that their ability to forget what they learned is higher, too (I can't count the number of times I've found myself halfway through a YouTube video before realizing that I'd already seen it before).

-Brian
Dannydoyle
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It is something that history will tell.

His making up numbers to back up a positron certainly does not help.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Cubbie451
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It sound like the "90%" number says more about Kyoki's personal beliefs than whats happening in reality. I get that "exposure" is bad. By exposure I mean a malicious telling of a trick or secret to discount the time and effort of another person. Like turning on the TV to show the trick you are doing is evidence that that persons mother raised them poorly. You can always ask that person to do the said trick on the spot to show that it does in fact take hours and hours to make look easy. However IMO Brian is attempting to do the same thing as Tarbell. Tarbell wanted to make as many master magicians as he could because he loved the art. So he started a school, more of a subscription plan, to make that happen. Yes Mr. Brushwood is making money, yes hes showing how to do tricks but is he doing it in a manner that is malicious? I really don't think so. If you look at the music industry you can see it has evolved much faster than magic. But its doing so because there are many many many more people playing/making music. If magic had that amount of people inventing and re imagining it where would we be? So if you want magic to become stagnate by all means restrict the flow of "ideas" and make it hard for someone to find the information. That way the next Houdini, Penn & Teller and Copperfield will be discouraged by the elitists who have the knowledge but don't want to give it out.
Cubbie451
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And on another note the reason I knew what a Raven was was because of YouTube. I would never have known what to look for or how to ask for what I wanted, I tried but always ran into people saying its good slight of hand or to try harder at palming. Most of the time said to me with an air of snobbery. The people at Max's Magic shop in ABQ NM has been awesome in helping me find what it is Im looking for but other magicians I have talked to seem to be threatened by questions about what it is they do. Its an interesting look for me into part of the magic community.
ATL
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Quote:
On Dec 10, 2015, ScamSchoolBrian wrote:
We appear to disagree on whether learning from YouTube videos counts in this regard, and I'm curious to hear more. Why wouldn't watching a ton of magic tutorials count? (Heck, just watching all of just Scam School alone would require two full 40-hour work weeks, which seems like a substantial investment to me.)

There's no doubt (to me) that there are real, talented magicians out there who won't ever set foot in a library (according to the emails I get, often for the simple reason that they don't have access to one). YouTube is their only practical option. Seems like they deserve a place at the magic table.


I'd just like to mention to you that your show while not main(being 52 Kards) or first(Disturb Reality) for me, was one of the reasons I got interested in magic. I'm one of those people who haven't ever read a magic book. While being very new(8 or so months into this), I'm performing a routine first time in February at my local magic circle. I'm sure books work for some people, but for me I just can't understand why wouldn't A) Actual person teaching the sleight/move B) Video of person teaching the sleight be better. I don't care how good pictures those books have, but for someone like me who learns best by seeing and copying I can't imagine picture's over video. To mention one, I learned charlie cut from your video, thanks Brian!

Also I think world is changing. In the local magic circle here in Australia, almost all of the members under 25 were already very familiar with some of those youtube channels I mentioned and for about half of them those were one of major reasons why they do magic today. For me I'm pretty sure without 52 Kards channel I wouldn't be doing magic today.

Something I read earlier this topic was that someone said they don't understand why magicians sell they're tricks. If I were to invent a trick I don't understand why wouldn't you do that. For me it seems very clear that with any form of passion the idea is to do what you can and then help younger people the better way you got it so they can learn it faster and easier so they can add to it.

I just wonder how people who has problems with even someone selling magic tricks feel with second deal demonstrations, plastic cups and balls, one handed pass(where the set up can be that you actually explain what the pass is) etc.

About scam school videos those clearly are tutorials instead of blatant exposures. Exposure at least how I see it would be someone rolling tape of someone else performing and then just pointing out where moves happen and what's the gimmick etc. That's very different from teaching it step by step, after your own performance of it. That's tutorial and very different thing. Also what I've seen from scam school they aren't exactly revealing FISM acts there, even though that's what I almost thought reading some of these posts.

I don't see any negative from it. Even public learning some basic concepts, that just means magicians need to adapt a bit. Also I don't think great routine is lessened by spectators knowing how it's done. Good routine's might, but great one's don't. I always try to make my routines so that those are entertaining to one's that know how it's done. I mean how couldn't I? I'm the one who has to watch it most times when practicing it, so it has to be something I enjoy watching even when knowing how I do it.

Anyways that's just my take on it. I'm all for sharing, I see a problem if someone shares effect without permission that's also being sold by creator. But doing tutorials on basic sleight of hand, that's what I think is just adapting to today's world. Most younger magicians prefer to learn from video instead pictures and text. If someone here have different opinion that's theirs to have, but I still will teach how trick is done if person genuinely interested comes to me after seeing performance.
Pop Haydn
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What an awful idea!

Put magic secrets in a book?

There will be no control over who reads it! No control over into whose hands the secrets will fall...
Ray Pierce
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Beautifully stated Pop. My job is to take those who know every effect I do and make them question their knowledge.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
writeall
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Midland, Michigan
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Sometimes I watch comedians on YouTube and then, later, tell some of the jokes to my friends.
Josh Riel
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of hell
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There are a few places in this place we call the Internet where you can show a picture of someone, and through that and perhaps the background they can give you all the details of that person, their families, phone numbers, addresses, employers... etc.
In some cases credit card information.

I know we want this all to be a secret... but change happens!
The whining you hear from people expecting secrecy is absurd.

"Logical conclusion"
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
paul180
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Wow have times changed. Must be a millennial thing? I remember when exposure by the masked magician, had the community up in arms. I think the pressure was so bad that Leonard Montano aka "Valentino" got out of the business?

It's true that some explanations of magic must exist to entice the young and or uninitiated to seek proper training. However, in today's world of instant gratification, the guarding of true concepts, would still be wise. Mentalism in some ways even more so. When a kid without experience, presents mentalism as a trick it hurts the art. However I one has the chops at any age to pull it off then I say go for it. I think maybe that we mentalist are more guarded because off how much of our craft there is" Surely we can agree that magic is much more plentiful in secrets, than mentalism? The exposure of one technique could put some mentalist our of business. Cassidy comes to mind, given his most acclaimed work to the lay was bi**ets.

Anyway I've always liked Brian and while I think drinking with him would be a trick in and of itself, I'm not enamored with the matalism exposure.

One more thing, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT LONG HAIR YOU FREAK. Some of us are trying to eat Smile
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a foolish man can learn from a wise answer.

Attributing negativity to a topic or post doesn't make the topic or post negative,
it shines a light on the negativity of the person or persons, making the attributions.

BEWARE these Debbie downers and anything they say. They simply lack the self esteem or good will, to be positive or productive. Your belief in self, is more
important and is all that matters, for your success to be glorious.
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