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Casey Sparrow
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Hey there! I'm relativity new to card magic... and I struggle with most sleights due to having extremely small hands Smile (it is physically impossible for me to palm a card without wrecking it)
im looking for any hints, tips, points in the right direction of where I could look and what I can practice.
Maybe someone has had a similar experience... ?

thanks for taking the time to read!
Have a good day

CS
5ublim3
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Maybe see if you can change up the effects so that they end with folded cards? Smile
On curves ahead, remember sonny, that rabbit's foot, didn't save the bunny.
Ihop
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There are plenty of card tricks that don't require palming.
Many of them are self-working.
I recommend some of Aldo Colombini's or Nick Trost's work.
Ihor
rklew64
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Not being able to palm a card is not a deal breaker - if you are really just starting out - learn how to shuffle a deck without looking. Handle a deck first. Your jumping the gun concerning yourself with sleights assuming you cant't even do a decent ribbon spread or fan.
MRSharpe
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Hand size really isn't that much of a problem as many new to magic seem to think. Before I say anything, How old are you? If you are still growing then you may have to wait until your hands get fully grown. That being said, I have small hands and used to think this was my problem with learning sleights. That is until I worked as a stage hand for two different magicians. I asked both of them to compare hand sizes with me and both hand shorter fingers than I. One did extensive card manipulations and the other didn't, but still, their hand size was no impediment to their card work. After that, I figured out that it shouldn't be to my learning sleights either. I learned some other things from these two magicians. One was that usually the problem is too heavy a grip or touch with cards. Most magicians new to card magic really apply too much pressure. This may be your your problem with palming. Another thing is that, although many magic books read as if all sleights are done exactly the same by all magicians. This is not the case. Everyone has to make at least subtle adjustments with each and every sleight. For some the adjustment is extreme. Third, one adjustment may be not learning a sleight that simply won't work for small hands/short fingers. You may have to find a different sleight or even invent a different move. Finally, in reference to "the" sleight you reference--palming--which palm/concealment are you referring to? For one, if you don't have a specific use for the move you may be wasting your time learning it (PM me on this and the other points and I'll give you an example) and that is time which could be better spent learning other moves. And finally, the success of palming depends more on misdirection than on anything, at least in my opinion. I once asked the late Jerry Andrus if his hands--which were huge, so much so that he could almost cover a jumbo card--and he told me, "Yes. If I don't misdirect any move properly I get accused of palming, even when I'm not palming." Again, PM me if you have any other questions. I hope this helped.
Custom Props Designer and Fabricator as well as Performer from Indiana, USA
brandon90
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Quote:
On Mar 9, 2014, rklew64 wrote:
Not being able to palm a card is not a deal breaker - if you are really just starting out - learn how to shuffle a deck without looking. Handle a deck first. Your jumping the gun concerning yourself with sleights assuming you cant't even do a decent ribbon spread or fan.


All of these are great advice...

If you can do a DL you can perform just about every effect out there.. learn a DL master it and the you're good to go, my personal opinion. I've been doing card magic on and off for about 7-8 years and haven't performed a single effect that involves palming a card Smile although its good to know.... I wouldn't stress over it! Master your DL and you should be good. Just my 2 cents.

best,
brandon
Casey Sparrow
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Hey Guys Great feedback thank you !
MRSharpe - I'm 25 so I'm stuck with the size but really thanks for the advice Smile

i think I should have elaborated with the palming statement.... I just meant as an example most tricks ive been trying out don't actually involve palming but the simple flourishes, card controls ect seem to be difficult to handle.
in regards to fanning again the fan comes out looking like a quarter of the size whether its a thumb spread or a pressure fan.

again I really do appreciate your feed back and thank you, there's not a lot of forums a beginner can have the confidence to post, but not at the Café!!

Regards,


CS
MRSharpe
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No problem Casey. I mentioned age because a lot of beginning magicians are anywhere from 7 to 12. I started at 7 and couldn't do a lot of difficult sleights until I was working in a magic store at age 25. The major factor there wasn't age/hand size, but having the advice of other magicians.
Specifically on palming, which ones are you trying? There are some that aren't useful by themselves and require a lot of work to combine with other moves to be useful. Also, you should really leave them for later.
Fanning is really unnecessary for magic effects. The look great, but are you trying to do display fans? If you want to have a card selected a fan doesn't have to look perfect.
Flourishes? Again, which ones? Same advice regarding fans--which are actually displays--they aren't necessary for magic effects.
When you say card controls you are on to something. However, there are controls that are very difficult to pick up and those that are not so much.
Finally, what are the sources from which you are finding these moves? Some are good for beginners and some aren't. It depends on who advised you to pick up the sources you picked up. and, are you a member of a magic club yet? It would really accelerate your learning and reduce your learning curve if you had somebody near you that could look at what you are doing and give you advice so you could tweak the moves you are learning.
Also, although the Café is a great place to get advice, you may find some here who won't help much because of your low post count. I had the same problem when I first came here and I've been doing magic for going on 50 years. Nobody knows that here and has no reason to believe claims about experience anyway. And for good reason as there are curiosity seekers who come to the Café and they aren't really interested in learning the first thing about magic except for secrets. If you want, PM me and I'll give you a little more attention as to sources and moves I would suggest that you try to learn.
Again, I hope this helps.
Custom Props Designer and Fabricator as well as Performer from Indiana, USA
metaljohn
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Montreal, QC
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Harry Lorayne has very small hands and he palms cards very well. I recently met an 11 year old boy who can do an Erdnas color change and can palm. He's pretty small.

As stated in Royal Road or Card College volume (one of those two or both... don't remember), many beginers think their hands are too small or have too many "windows" between their fingers, but with good practice, you should be fine.
rockkid
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Try learning tricks without palming cards, there are many. If you insist on learning, you may have to perfect your diversion techniques, or just practice some more, maybe that will work for you.

Good luck!
Zephury
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I didn't read all the replies-- So, I'm sorry if anything is repeated.

Books, DVDs, NOT YOUTUBE. Eventually you will gain an intuition on what is good and bad to watch on Youtube, but for now, stay away. Tricks where you just learn the "secret" is generally ok. But anything that teaches you a sleight, I suggest staying away from. Don't try and learn how to Zarrow, Palm, false shuffle, or anything of the sort from YouTube. Nothing practical anyways.. If you're looking up false cuts or things that generally "cant be wrong," it's fine. Just be really careful. I learned the Zarrow shuffle completely wrong from YouTube, and now it's hard for me to adapt to the proper way.

Here's some books to start in:
Royal Road to Card Magic
Card College Vol. 1 (move through the other 4 as well if you can..But it's not important to buy them all at once)

Once you start getting the basics-- or, if you just generally want to learn the harder things first, which is a GOOD thing. I admire people who tackle some of the hardest things first.. It makes the rest a lot easier:
Expert at the Card Table
Expert Card Technique
Harry Lorayne's Close-up Card Magic (the rest of his stuff is good as well, but I haven't read them all)

In general here's some books I really enjoy on cards:
Card Cavalcade Vol. 1 through 4
Paul Harris' Close-Up Fantasies Vol. 1 - 3
Scarne's Tricks - John Scarne
Anything Ed Marlo

Try getting ahold of Michael Ammar's Easy to Master Card Miracles.. There's a lot of wonderful tricks in there that will be great to start you off to where you can knock some people's socks off. Red Hot Mama is one of my favorites!

Some things I advise for starting out..
Make sure your shuffles look good! I can't say enough how much a magician trying to do a card trick without at least looking professional is. I hate seeing people at my local assembly try to show everyone a card trick.. yet they drop the cards everywhere. I handed my deck of cards to another magician for a shuffle and he ended up creasing some of the cards..
Make sure you can do:
Overhand Shuffle
Hindu Shuffle
In the hands Riffle shuffle (This gets useful later. DON'T put this off if you can't do it yet. I made that mistake. Learn it early on)
Table shuffle/riffle

Learn a good double lift. I recommend Dai Vernon's.
Learn an in the hands as well as tabled false cut.

A major mistake I made when getting in to card magic is buying all of those Ellusionist and Theory 11 detailed, fancy decks. DON'T.
Buy 2 packs of Tally-ho's, 2 packs of Bee's and 2 packs of Bicycles.. Get a feel for them. Decide which you like. I use all 3. Then.. stop buying them from the store. Go online or to a place like Sam's Club or Costco and buy bricks of 12 cards. It's much cheaper. You can get 12 decks of Bicycles for about $14.

Get a good side close-up mat from Tannens or your favorite magic dealer. I hear this gentleman makes wonderful mats at a really good price. I've yet to try them myself, but they sound great. And for the price, you can't go wrong.
http://www.pmsmagic.com/index.php/world-......istings/

Good luck!
MagicianFromHades
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Regarding your hand size problems, I might suggest bridge sized cards, or miniature decks. Bridge decks are hard to find, but they sell them on Amazon for pretty cheap (long link, so I'll PM you). And mini decks you can likely pick up at your local toy/magic store.
robvh
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Quote:
On Mar 10, 2014, Zephury wrote:
In the hands Riffle shuffle (This gets useful later. DON'T put this off if you can't do it yet. I made that mistake. Learn it early on)


Zephury, you offered some excellent advice. May I ask where you learned the proper technique for an in the hands riffle shuffle? I tried figuring it out through experimentation but found it quite frustrating.

What I do instead is an imperfect faro with a bridge. It's easy to do, looks good, and sounds good. That's my tip. However, learning the riffle has the advantage that you can progress to doing in the hands f***e riffle shuffles!
BCS
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Casey... Within this section is a posting regarding Harry Lorayne's "The Magic Book".... http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=41

It is all about close-up magic... an excellent primmer for cards, coins, etc... better than most magic books. Besides great descriptions there are after thoughts explaining tips and the whys and how.

There is a good mix of card sleights and self working card tricks.

This book is a favorite of mine.

Good luck,
Bruce
Shuaige
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Hi Guys,

Since this is a post on card magic, I thought I will like to ask if different type of cards is suitable for different card magic? There are so many Brands and the kickstarter keeps on churning out new decks. I am so confused on what decks to buy. How's the Legends deck and Exquisite deck? FYI, I know nothing to card magic or cardistry. Thanks!!!

Best
Shuaige
TyTheMagician
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If your smart, you'll buy standard Bikes. Custom decks do NOTHING to improve your magic, and are very expensive. You can get a really good magic book for the same price as a custom deck in many cases. Bikes are also more familiar to your audiences. Not only that, but if you ever want to use a gaff card or gimmicked deck, they pretty much all come as Bikes.

Some people prefer Tally-Hos or Bees(especially for gambling moves), and both of those are good, too. I just think Bikes are best for the familiarity, cheapness, and quality.
Steven Webb
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Quote:
On Mar 22, 2014, TyTheMagician wrote:
If your smart, you'll buy standard Bikes. Custom decks do NOTHING to improve your magic, and are very expensive. You can get a really good magic book for the same price as a custom deck in many cases. Bikes are also more familiar to your audiences. Not only that, but if you ever want to use a gaff card or gimmicked deck, they pretty much all come as Bikes.

Some people prefer Tally-Hos or Bees(especially for gambling moves), and both of those are good, too. I just think Bikes are best for the familiarity, cheapness, and quality.


This advice is top notch! You stand out by having good tricks and performance, not unique decks.
Shuaige
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Quote:
On Mar 22, 2014, TyTheMagician wrote:
If your smart, you'll buy standard Bikes. Custom decks do NOTHING to improve your magic, and are very expensive. You can get a really good magic book for the same price as a custom deck in many cases. Bikes are also more familiar to your audiences. Not only that, but if you ever want to use a gaff card or gimmicked deck, they pretty much all come as Bikes.

Some people prefer Tally-Hos or Bees(especially for gambling moves), and both of those are good, too. I just think Bikes are best for the familiarity, cheapness, and quality.


Hi TyTheMagician, really appreciate your help here. It is really a close-knitted community here! Haha, avoid the fancy stuff. Be pragmatic! Ok, I'll shop for bikes one of these days.

Regards
Lau
SDMoore1
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Quote:
On Mar 22, 2014, TyTheMagician wrote:
If your smart, you'll buy standard Bikes. Custom decks do NOTHING to improve your magic, and are very expensive. You can get a really good magic book for the same price as a custom deck in many cases. Bikes are also more familiar to your audiences. Not only that, but if you ever want to use a gaff card or gimmicked deck, they pretty much all come as Bikes.

Some people prefer Tally-Hos or Bees(especially for gambling moves), and both of those are good, too. I just think Bikes are best for the familiarity, cheapness, and quality.


Personally, I've always preferred them for the reasons you mention...and primarily due to "familiarity." Most people are disarmed and relaxed by the familiar, in my experience.
Casey Sparrow
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Hi there! apologies for the lateness of my reply!
MagicianFromHades if you could PM me that would be great.
As to everyone else thanks for the advice. I have a lot of new things to look into so I don't feel so frustrated!
genuine community spirit going on here. I should have registered sooner! I Hope others found some useful info too.

Thanks again!

CS
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