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TravisNye
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Surprisingly enough I felt the same way many years after I started card magic and couldn't bring myself to palming. If you feel your hands are truly to small look into Bicycle Bridge decks. they are a bit smaller and easier to handle for smaller hands. They are hard to find in stores so you may have to order them.

If you can not find them my suggestion is practice with the normal size cards. You would be surprised to find when palming a card it does not have to fit in your hand. its all about angles
1KJ
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I don't have small hands, but I would say I probably don't practice as much as I should. As a result, over the years, I have found Jay Sankey DVDs to be the most helpful to me. The reason is he has TINY hands! So, he has developed methods that suit his hands. What I found is that his methods suit me very well because his moves are easy to do and, for me, don't require too much practice.

Here's an example: I watched several DVDs on how to do the pass. I just wasn't getting it. Then, I watched Jay's "Extremely Ambitious" DVD many years ago. I learned the pass in a day and had it down within a week with just about 10 minutes of daily practice. Jay is the first to say on his DVD that his pass is "just OK", not perfect. However, he teaches how to combine a decent pass with good misdirection. I have used this pass ever since and have NEVER been caught. I practiced this pass on people who knew what I was about to do and they didn't see it. The reason wasn't the pass, it was the misdirection. If you ask someone a question or make them laugh, It is almost impossible for their eyes to not move away from the cards. Because it can be harder to make everyone laugh, if in doubt, as you do the pass, look them in the eyes and ask a question, like "Do you remember the card you selected?"

KJ
Kbuck54
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Good advise here for you. I agree, you should start with Royal road and card college #1. It took me a long time (small hands here, too.) to master a good invisible pass. Learn the basic handleing and then move on to a good DL and a Good Pass. And yes, misdirection is a big part of both moves.
JMTC
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JohnnyPD
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Wow... great stuff guys AND it is very nice to see so many offering help and advise to new magicians (ah...that would be me). I would have to maybe add that if you're going down the Royal Road then you might want to consider a companion DVDs like Paul Wilson's 5-DVD set. I just find the wording in Royal Road to be rather confusing, although it gets better as you get used to their methods or ways they describe a movement.

I was looking for something that would give me specific practice routines (so to speak) that I could work on over... and over... and over... again. I took one simple little flare and decided I was going to work on this for at least 30-60 minutes a day every day until I became very well versed in it's flourish. I'm referring to the finger card spin, which is something totally unnecessary and useless in regards to performing any trick, but I have to semi-quote Zephury or at least give him props for some great advice. It's all about the fundamentals. You can't jump into doing calculations with Calculus until you've mastered the proceeding levels of math (Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonmetry) - that's something I understand because I took that path in math. I'm taking the long way home with my card handling and wanted a regimented group of handling procedures (if you will) that would eventually and over time provide me with some serious card handling skills that would not only be useful in performing "tricks" or illusions, but would also help with improved confidence and a much more stylized performance. It is precisely for those reasons that I've been working on a couple of techniques that have nothing to do with any magic trick and aren't really magic themselves, BUT... they will, I think, add to my magic persona. I'm referring to a couple of flourishes, which I know that flourishes need to be used very cautiously and lightly because too much flourish and you'll have them believing everything you do is a sleight because of your fancy card handling abilities.

Of course I'm working on the basics, too... all the standard shuffles (haven't gotten to any "air riffles yet), but also wanting to have just a tad bit of flare in my performance so I look like an above average card handler AND I know from watching card handlers that a nice, slick, clean, and properly done riffle shuffle goes a LONG way towards making a statement about how well you handle a deck of cards, whether you're doing a trick or just handling the cards, to me it's all representative of a highly skilled card handler who has put in the dues, practiced the basics, and built upon those techniques that have come before.

Some good books in that list from Zephury that I hadn't heard about AND that sound very useful.

Okay... rambling done for tonight, but just ONE more thing. Mention was made of NOT following YouTube tutorials on card handling/sleight unless you're certain it's being performed correctly, which for us new folks isn't always evident or obvious. I've watched and studied at least a dozen tutorials on a simple card fan and I'm hoping someone here can set me straight or give me assistance with my issue. I can make a nice half-fan that extends in an arc outward from my u-shaped palm area (u-shape is the shape of my hand holding the cards. When I extend my fan outward it stops far short of what I've seen most others do, which is right in the fleshy part of the hand just under the thumb. When I watch others perform the fan it seems to go almost full circle.

ANYONE? I promise I'll keep working on those fundamentals, coach... but I just want to learn to do one twisting slam dunk move, just for fun.
Magic is believing in yourself. If you can do that, you can make anything happen.
frankvomit
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I have very small hands and I can palm a card. Maybe try learning the gamblers copp and work on that til you get comfortable with it seeing as how you don't have to have the whole card in your hand then you can focus on your angles from there then by the time you're ready to start palming it won't be such a bugaboo. But yeah palming is nice to know how to do but what was said already there are tons of tricks that don't
Require palming.
Terrible Wizard
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I'm a beginner too, though perhaps a little farther along the road than you. If I could go back in time I'd start out with the following:

A) A place to practice, which would have a large mirror, a table, and a mat (either bought or made). In an ideal world, with plenty of money, I'd also have a decent camcorder. A good practice space is worth its weight in gold. If you have the cash and space, then a nearby bookshelf and DVD player (perhaps portable) would also be very handy when learning something new.

B) I'd start with decent poker sized cards, rather than with cheap plastic coated bridge sized. Bikes are fine, though Phoenix seem to be the rising stars of the card world.

C) My primary starting 'course' would be The Royal Road to Card Magic. I'd follow it as a step-by-step course. As I am quite a visual learner I'd supplement the book with a DVD set, either the Rudy Hunter or Wilson set (most prefer the Wilson set, though it is a lot more expensive). As I progressed I'd also later get Expert Card Technique and The Expert at the Card Table. That would give me an excellent set of classic card magic books, all easily available and quite cheap.

D) For supplementary learning, and for a huge range of tricks, I'd get Gerry Griffin's Complete Card Magic DVD set (which is great value) and Scarne on Card Tricks (another classic book and great value).

E) At a later stage, after I'd gone quite far with RRTCM and learned a bag-full of FASDIU tricks (which I'd taken out into the world and had lots of flight time with), I'd learn some gaff stuff - the best value being (IMHO) Lovell's Packet Killer DVD and gaff card set, and an ID.
0045
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Hi Casey Sparrow

I too have very small hands so I tend to veer away from tricks which require a lot of palming. (Although I do perform two that require the sleight)

MagicianFromHades has already suggested a solution which I use, that is to use a smaller size deck. I use Waddingtons No1's for almost all my card work now.

They are widely available in the UK, even more so than bikes and tally ho's, not sure about the rest of the world though. Try a Google search.

As for learning sources you can't go wrong with the royal road or with any books by Harry Lorayne. Mr Lorayne's work is not overly sleight heavy and he has the wonderful gift of being able to teach through the printed word far better than many other authors on the subject.

Regards

0045
0045
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Hi Casey Sparrow

I too have very small hands so I tend to veer away from tricks which require a lot of palming. (Although I do perform two that require the sleight)

MagicianFromHades has already suggested a solution which I use, that is to use a smaller size deck. I use Waddingtons No1's for almost all my card work now.

They are widely available in the UK, even more so than bikes and tally ho's, not sure about the rest of the world though. Try a Google search.

As for learning sources you can't go wrong with the royal road or with any books by Harry Lorayne. Mr Lorayne's work is not overly sleight heavy and he has the wonderful gift of being able to teach through the printed word far better than many other authors on the subject.

Regards

0045
1KJ
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Quote:
On May 1, 2014, JohnnyPD wrote:
Okay... rambling done for tonight, but just ONE more thing. Mention was made of NOT following YouTube tutorials on card handling/sleight unless you're certain it's being performed correctly, which for us new folks isn't always evident or obvious. I've watched and studied at least a dozen tutorials on a simple card fan and I'm hoping someone here can set me straight or give me assistance with my issue. I can make a nice half-fan that extends in an arc outward from my u-shaped palm area (u-shape is the shape of my hand holding the cards. When I extend my fan outward it stops far short of what I've seen most others do, which is right in the fleshy part of the hand just under the thumb. When I watch others perform the fan it seems to go almost full circle.

ANYONE? I promise I'll keep working on those fundamentals, coach... but I just want to learn to do one twisting slam dunk move, just for fun.


I have found that unlike, perhaps a golf swing, there probably isn't ONE right way to do a sleight. I suggest you try different approaches and see what works best for you. That is why I like Jay Sankey's sleights. He has modified different moves to fit his hands and his abilities, and by coincidence, his moves seem to suit me well because I was able to pick them up easily.

One more piece of advice. If you find a move hard to do, then do it in slow motion over and over. You will find that your hands will start moving in a way that accomplishes the move more and more easily. It may be a bit different than the way it was taught, but it may work for you. For example, I practiced a left hand, single handed ace production with the Aces truly scattered throughout the deck. It took me a long time to get my hands to do the moves, and I developed a move that I have never seen anyone do. However, it works for me, and it looks good. Interestingly, I am right handed, and I can't do the move or the routine with my right hand. I guess this is what they mean when they say "muscle memory".

Finally, record yourself doing the move on video from various angles. If it doesn't look good from a viewer's perspective, then keep working on it. The viewer's perspective is the most important criteria for whether you are doing it "right" or not. If you are doing it differently than some expert is teaching it, and it looks terrible to the spectator, then try harder to do it the way the expert is teaching it, or find a new expert. There are some experts that are tremendous, but my hands just don't move that way. If you are doing it differently, and it looks great, then bingo!

KJ
Harry Lorayne
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If, in fact, you intend to pay attention to people like 0045 above, you might go to my magic website (listed under this post with the word "magic" in it) and learn about some of my stuff that's currently available. Incidentally, I've seen guys will large hands who can't do a decent palm if their lives depended on it. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
1KJ
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I second the Harry Lorayne material. Harry's material is another I use. I think the thing I like most about Harry's material is how powerful and well thought out everything is. When you get material from someone who has worked each effect hundreds or thousands of times, they have worked out ways of getting the most miracle with the least amount of effort. I would say Sankey's material is easy to learn and very good. I would say Harry's material is also easy to learn, and very hard hitting!

I think we are blessed to have Harry and to see him posting on this café.

I bow down to you, Mr. Lorayne.

KJ
kennyka
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Hi Casey,

I can add another person here saying I too, have small hands and when it came to palming cards, I felt the same way. Ironically, it's a blessing for coins. But, actually, there are more magicians with small hands than you think. Jay Sankey and Harry Lorayne have small hands, as was already mentioned. Both extremely awesome. I will also agree that you can't go wrong with either of them for ease of handling a trick. I love everything by Harry Lorayne. I met Jay Sankey and realized we are the same size and have the same size hands. He actually talks about his hand size, as does Harry, on videos involving palming.

Never let what you "think" is a limitation stop you from working on it. Sometimes just when you're about to give up, you actually reach the break through to where you actually do it perfectly. If you truly want proof of not being concerned about limitations, there's a video I saw a few years ago where the guy had no hands at all, yet still did an amazing card trick. Anyone aware of what I'm talking about, please offer a link.

When I get frustrated, I simply work on something else for awhile and then come back to what frustrated me. The thing is to not give up and think you "can't". You can and will. Just maybe not now.

Kenny
Ado
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Small hands? Look at this: http://youtu.be/l8isiXqxgNI
The guy still palms cards.
Stop whining, and just learn to palm.

P!
kennyka
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1KJ
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Quote:
On May 10, 2014, Ado wrote:
Small hands? Look at this: http://youtu.be/l8isiXqxgNI
The guy still palms cards.
Stop whining, and just learn to palm.

P!


WOW!
kennyka
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I was impressed with what you shared Ado. Good stuff. Thanks for that. I didn't mean to ignore what you shared by my post. I was just happy to find the video I was looking for at the time.

Stuff like that makes me suck it up and is pretty inspiring. It all comes down to purpose and confidence. Uhmmm...and practice.

I appreciate that Ado.

Kenny
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