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acesover
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One should realize that when increases in education spending is allocated it should not just go for teacher salaries. There are other things. However teachers do not see it that way.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
landmark
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Do you go out of your way to be ignorant about educational issues?

NO teacher contract is just about teachers' salaries.

Class size has always been a huge issue. Allocation for teaching materials is a huge issue. In an average year, my wife and I spend *thousands* of dollars on materials for the classroom. You can look at my tax return on that. We don't get a whole lot back for it. In NYC, we used to get $400 a year we were allowed to spend on documented classroom materials. That has been cut to $150. That barely pays for my dry erase pens.

Do you think students should have after school programs? Do you think students with disabilities should have extra help? Do you think students should have money for musical instruments and language labs? Do you think there should be toilet paper in the bathrooms? Do you think that there should be paper available for making copies? These are all issues championed and defended by teachers' unions and written into contracts because the union demanded these issues and won as administrators have cut, cut , cut, grabbing back. Do you think private operators should come into a school building, pay no rent, have no financial oversight, and take over facilities meant for disabled students? These are the real issues that teachers deal with every day.

The world is bigger than your corrupt little town, with no racial diversity, at most 1000 students, 50 teachers, where school board members are backed by people who know nothing about education. How absurd to make statements about teachers when you know so little. Get out of the pool hall, hop on a bus and see what goes on in the rest of the country.
Cliffg37
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What landmark is saying about money, size and supplies is the complete and honest truth. I don't know about you, but smart people always listen to the voice of experience.
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stoneunhinged
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Landmark and Cliff: Aces has a bug up his yahoo on this subject. Don't you remember?

We've all been here too long. We have become predictable. This whole thread could have written itself without us.

And we teachers have work to do, after all. Because it never, ever, EVER stops. It all comes down to how one defines work. I keep a notebook (Field Notes brand) and pencil (a Palamino Blackwing) in my coat pocket, and probably half of my jots and scribbles have to do with work. Today I learned about a classroom exercise I had never heard of before, so I wrote it down and thought about how I might implement it.

Was I working? Did I get paid?
0pus
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What was the exercise?
acesover
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2014, landmark wrote:
Do you go out of your way to be ignorant about educational issues?

NO teacher contract is just about teachers' salaries.

Class size has always been a huge issue. Allocation for teaching materials is a huge issue. In an average year, my wife and I spend *thousands* of dollars on materials for the classroom. You can look at my tax return on that. We don't get a whole lot back for it. In NYC, we used to get $400 a year we were allowed to spend on documented classroom materials. That has been cut to $150. That barely pays for my dry erase pens.

Do you think students should have after school programs? Do you think students with disabilities should have extra help? Do you think students should have money for musical instruments and language labs? Do you think there should be toilet paper in the bathrooms? Do you think that there should be paper available for making copies? These are all issues championed and defended by teachers' unions and written into contracts because the union demanded these issues and won as administrators have cut, cut , cut, grabbing back. Do you think private operators should come into a school building, pay no rent, have no financial oversight, and take over facilities meant for disabled students? These are the real issues that teachers deal with every day.

The world is bigger than your corrupt little town, with no racial diversity, at most 1000 students, 50 teachers, where school board members are backed by people who know nothing about education. How absurd to make statements about teachers when you know so little. Get out of the pool hall, hop on a bus and see what goes on in the rest of the country.


If you are going to tell me that you spend thousands of dollars of your money in order to teach. All
I have to say is that I have to ignore your posts because I believe it is BS.

Thousands on supplies in order to teach, on what?

Before you shoot off your mouth take a look at Wyoming Area.: http://www.wyomingarea.org/

Read a little about it. I won't blow its horn I don't have too. I have an issue with teachers always crying poor mouth. Let them get out of Academia and get a position in the real world for a real eye opener. Where your work is monitored and you get paid for your accomplishments not your tenure.

Also I do not see your point of toilet paper, band instruments, other interests after school or disabilities. We have all that. I simply said that every time there is money given to schools by government it should not go to teacher salary increases. What the he77 is your point?

---------------------------------

What are you talking about when you posted this? I am not sure.

Do you think private operators should come into a school building, pay no rent, have no financial oversight, and take over facilities meant for disabled students? These are the real issues that teachers deal with every day.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
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Quote:
Acesover wrote:

...Also just reading your post you must have taught a long long time ago as you Xeroxed copies. lol


Speaking of not knowing what goes on in the rest of the country, I guess Xerox is unaware that no one uses their photo-copiers and printers anymore:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox#Current_products

Been to a FedEx Office (Kinko's) lately? You might want to drop by and watch all those folks using the self-service Xerox machines- the same ones that remain in wide use in schools throughout the country.
acesover
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
Acesover wrote:

...Also just reading your post you must have taught a long long time ago as you Xeroxed copies. lol


Speaking of not knowing what goes on in the rest of the country, I guess Xerox is unaware that no one uses their photo-copiers and printers anymore:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox#Current_products

Been to a FedEx Office (Kinko's) lately? You might want to drop by and watch all those folks using the self-service Xerox machines- the same ones that remain in wide use in schools throughout the country.


Simply meant that using the term Xerox copies is somewhat antiquated as Xerox was one of the pioneers in copy business. it was often called a Xerox copy but that was back in the early 60's and I do not hear anyone saying Xerox these for me. I just hear make copies. Xerox is nothing more than a company name now. Honestly Bob if you wanted someone to make copies of documents. Would you ask them to Xerox them or make copies? Maybe back in the 60's or even the 70's you might say Xerox them...but no so much today in 2014. That is al lI meant when I said it must have been a long time ago. I know you try and find fault with everything I post, but come on Bob, lighten up here. Smile Xerox Smile Would you Xerox this for me? WHAT. Smile

I mean are you allowed to Xerox on a canon copier, or a Kodak copier or whatever? Hope I clarified what I meant.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
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"Xerox" is commonly used as a synonym for photo copying. And since MANY schools and companies still use actual Xerox machines, the term is still used. Kind of like "Scotch tape" is more likely to be heard than "cellophane tape."
stoneunhinged
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On Mar 20, 2014, 0pus wrote:
What was the exercise?


This (although I'm linking to a Wiki article, I had never heard of it before):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishbowl_(conversation)
landmark
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I read about your district before I posted. The horrible teachers there in your district were so unprofessional and ineffective that US World News Report awarded them a Silver Medal as Best High School in the Country in 2013. Give them all a pay cut. Meanwhile the district hasn't given them a new contract since 2010 and doesn't want to pay retroactive on the contract that they refused to negotiate. The median salary for a teacher in NE PA is about $47,000.

As for my teacher expenses, really you just embarrass yourself when you talk about things you don't know about. How much do you think a projector costs? How much do you think binders and notebooks for all my students cost? How much do you think algebra tiles cost? How much for cuisenaire rods and the workbooks that come with them for my remedial students? How much for algebra weighing pans? How much for Bainbridge board so students can make surveying tools? How much do you think the DVDS my wife uses to teach the English language to her students cost? How much do you think teachers' editions of supplemental textbooks cost? How much do you think poster size graph paper costs? How much do you think chalkboard-size compass, rulers and protractors cost? How much do you think batteries for classroom sets of calculators cost? How much do you think computer software costs? How much does the pizza, soda, plates, cups, forks and knives when a class does something really special cost? How much for the math and motivation posters on my classroom walls? You know nothing.

Quote:
Also I do not see your point of toilet paper, band instruments, other interests after school or disabilities. We have all that.

No we don't!! That's the point!! Get out of the pool hall and look around. We don't. And yet you make the most incredible blanket statements about teachers.

Quote:
What are you talking about when you posted this? I am not sure.

Do you think private operators should come into a school building, pay no rent, have no financial oversight, and take over facilities meant for disabled students? These are the real issues that teachers deal with every day.


Of course you don't know what I'm talking about; it's only the most important issue facing public education today, why should you have even the slightest awareness of what's going on? Keep railing against teachers, while the Wall Street charter boys steal the public treasury.
acesover
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2014, landmark wrote:
I read about your district before I posted. The horrible teachers there in your district were so unprofessional and ineffective that US World News Report awarded them a Silver Medal as Best High School in the Country in 2013. Give them all a pay cut. Meanwhile the district hasn't given them a new contract since 2010 and doesn't want to pay retroactive on the contract that they refused to negotiate. The median salary for a teacher in NE PA is about $47,000.

As for my teacher expenses, really you just embarrass yourself when you talk about things you don't know about. How much do you think a projector costs? How much do you think binders and notebooks for all my students cost? How much do you think algebra tiles cost? How much for cuisenaire rods and the workbooks that come with them for my remedial students? How much for algebra weighing pans? How much for Bainbridge board so students can make surveying tools? How much do you think the DVDS my wife uses to teach the English language to her students cost? How much do you think teachers' editions of supplemental textbooks cost? How much do you think poster size graph paper costs? How much do you think chalkboard-size compass, rulers and protractors cost? How much do you think batteries for classroom sets of calculators cost? How much do you think computer software costs? How much does the pizza, soda, plates, cups, forks and knives when a class does something really special cost? How much for the math and motivation posters on my classroom walls? You know nothing.

Quote:
Also I do not see your point of toilet paper, band instruments, other interests after school or disabilities. We have all that.

No we don't!! That's the point!! Get out of the pool hall and look around. We don't. And yet you make the most incredible blanket statements about teachers.

Quote:
What are you talking about when you posted this? I am not sure.

Do you think private operators should come into a school building, pay no rent, have no financial oversight, and take over facilities meant for disabled students? These are the real issues that teachers deal with every day.


Of course you don't know what I'm talking about; it's only the most important issue facing public education today, why should you have even the slightest awareness of what's going on? Keep railing against teachers, while the Wall Street charter boys steal the public treasury.


Doesn't your school supply you with any of those items in order to teach? I would have to say that you are right in your thinking that I believe that the school district has to supply the teachers the proper tools in order to teach. I did not know they just gave you a room and you had to purchase everything yourself. My bad. It is a little different here in Fantasyland. We actually give our teachers supplies, and books. Most students purchase their notebooks themselves. That is why the stores sell them before school starts. It is not teachers lining up to purchase these things it is the parents of the students.

Please tell me what private operators you are talking about? Also how does this affect teachers. Honestly I would like to become aware of just what you are talking about.

I still have to question your numbers of thousands...come on now give me a break.

By the way I am not railing against teachers as you say. I am saying they are not under paid around here. Where you live what is the average (mean) salary and what do teachers make? As I said before you get paid for what you accomplish not for tenure in the real world. You completely ignored their demands for total payment of their healthcare and time off for hurting their throat for talking to much or a 23% pay raise in 3 years. Not to mention the deal they want if both husband and wife work on their healthcare.

The teachers refused to negoiate in the summer. But they strike as soon as school started in Sept. Kids have to go to school late in June because of this. They refuse to negotiate in the summer. Funny they never strike around Christmas vacation. But it bit them in the rear this last year as they had to work close to Christmas and come back sooner than ever in order to fulfill the amount of days required by law. Wish you could have heard the complaining.

Everyone is entitled to fair compensation but please stop telling me that school teachers are underpaid and have such terrible jobs and have to pay for all their supplies in order to be able to teach. It is just not true.

If they have such terrible jobs why don't they seek employment in the private sector. I am sure they can find a position as they have a BA and you feel that when you have one (BA) you should be paid well and are in demand. You should really check the economy and see what people are getting paid today and what is out there as far as work and compensation. Then come back and talk.
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mastermindreader
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Landmark is referring to the diversion of PUBLIC education funds to PRIVATE charter schools. Wall Street seems to love the idea.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravi......087.html
LobowolfXXX
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On Mar 20, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Landmark is referring to the diversion of PUBLIC education funds to PRIVATE charter schools. Wall Street seems to love the idea.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravi......087.html


Much better to give tax credits to parents of children who go to private schools.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Cliffg37
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Wall street loves the idea for two reasons.

1. Charter schools do not have to be unionized, so teachers can be treated any way the principal feels on a day to day basis.
2. Charter schools are publicly funded and as such many can be made by private owners and corporate owners. Of course if you run a school "for profit" it is only natural that the money that should have gone somewhere now goes into someone's pocket.

What do I have to buy myself? copy paper, white board markers, string, batteries, tuition for classes I take,marbles, printer ink, and more. Now I do write that off on my taxes as legitimate business expenses. This is legal, but it is not like I get the money back. Could I get by without spending that money. Mostly I could... I could be a teacher who has the kids come in every day, read the chapter of the book. It looks good. Kids are quiet and focused, they just don't bloody learn anything that way.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right!
mastermindreader
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On Mar 20, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 20, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Landmark is referring to the diversion of PUBLIC education funds to PRIVATE charter schools. Wall Street seems to love the idea.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravi......087.html


Much better to give tax credits to parents of children who go to private schools.


I agree.
landmark
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You completely ignored their demands for total payment of their healthcare and time off for hurting their throat for talking to much or a 23% pay raise in 3 years.


According to the local newspaper, that's not even close:

Quote:
At negotiations two weeks ago, the union proposed raises according to seniority steps ranging from 1.83 percent to 3.02 percent in each of the seven years. The district offered raises from 2.28 percent to 2.86 percent for five years, but not for the 2011-2012 school year, in which a wage freeze was proposed.

http://timesleader.com/news/local-news/7......or-today

And that's not even talking about the healthcare giveback, and the fact that because there has been no contract since 2010, step increases have been frozen. Your school district has one of the lowest teacher salaries in the area, and of course, administrators have had increases in this period. See: http://timesleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art......9&Ref=AR
LobowolfXXX
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BTW Landmark in a related aside, you mentioned in the Ravitch thread that you weren't sure where I got the 17.6% figure I used (for the Chicago teachers' pay increase over four years). It was here: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-......formance
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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As I believe I mentioned then, that figure is over four years, and includes *an extended day* so the real pay increase is probably closer to 3 percent a year. And, of course, because of the bogus evaluation system instituted, there is much less job security than before. Personally, I don't think CTU should have made that settlement, but it was a tough fight.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2014, landmark wrote:
As I believe I mentioned then, that figure is over four years, and includes *an extended day*


Right, but I'd already beaten you to both of those points:
Quote:

On Mar 14, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The school day was being extended...The strike ended when on top of the 2011 $67,974 (source: CNN) median base salary...the union got the teachers a 17.6% increase over four years


None of which changes my point in that portion of my reply - the teachers were striking for their own benefit, not the students'. I agree that if their workday is being changed from 7 to 7.5 hours, they should be compensated. But Ravitch didn't even acknowledge that the primary reasons for the strike were for the teachers, not the students.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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